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 Post subject: High Principality
 Post Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:47 pm 
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I would like to bring this up to discussion.
Why was this removed from our corpora when we adopted Principality?
Now I know I have a bias opinion since I wrote it. But we are one of the few Kingdoms in Amtgard that has been given the right to award this lvl of subgroup and I think it should be a point of pride.
This is the lvl of subgroup that the BL had to have the 75 sign-ins for 1 yr to qualify for.

Note....I only expect a reasonable conversation about this.


High Principality
[
Under the terms that follow we (the Borderlands) ask for the following terms. + That the territorial titile (Principality) be given to the Borderlands on the First day of December 1995. + That this agreement be Grandfathered from this date (July 23rd 1995) in order to prevent any future disagreement as to the rights and abilities of the High Principality of the Borderlands. Should this territorial title be included in any future Corpora of an existing Kingdom, or the Board of Directors of Amtgard:Kingdom of the Burning Lands, Inc. we shall maintain the rights granted us by the Kindgom of the Emerald Hills and The Amtgard B.O.D. regardless of any external changes to the Corpora. + We request the following changes be Adopted, as per our agreement, and that they be permanent and binding. With no possiblility of future change to this agreement by any future ruler of the Emerald Hills or The Amtgard B.O.D. Note: This agreement may be amended or changed only by a 2/3 majority vote of eligible dues paid members of the Borderlands (Waco, TX).
. Ruler has the title of Prince/Princess
. Could receive the title of Count/Countess upon completion of term.
. May award the titles of Count/Countess, Viscount/Vicountess, Marquis/Marquise, Baron/Baroness, Baronet, Lord/Lady, Defender, Warlord.
. May award all awards with no restriction as to the number that may be given, except those that apply per the award.
. May award all masterhoods in both service Guilds and Fighting Guilds, as well as Masterhood for the Orders.
. May not award Knighthoods, but may perform the ceremony with written approval of the Monarch of the Emerald Hills
. May forward candidates for Knighthood directly to the Monarch of the Emerald Hills without having to go through the Knights Guild of the Emerald Hills.
. May establish a Knights Guild for candidate selection.
. Regent/Consort could receive the title of Marquis/Marquise at the end of their term.
. May award the appropriate awards for that position with no restrictions.
. Prime Minister could receive the title of Baron/Baroness at the end of their term.
. Champion could receive the title of Defender at the end of their term.
. Knight of the Crown will only be awarded to individuals who have served in Kingdom level offices. As members of the Kingdom of Emerald Hills all members of the Borderlands have the opportunity to run for all Kingdom level positions. However, at the discretion of the Monarch, this Order of Knighthood may be awarded for extended service at the Principality level for dedicated, and exemplary service as Prince/Princess, Regent or Prime Minister.
. Shall not have a vote outside of the Emerald Hills on political issues.
. We acknowledge the Monarch of the Emerald Hills as our rightful ruler and will assist him/her in any manner that best serves the realm.
. Will not engage in any political activities outside the realm, without approval of the Emerald Hills.

The above terms will be added to the existing Corpora of the Emerald Hills and submitted to you at the earliest opportunity.

Signatures: From the Borderlands
Grand Duke Sir Asmund Heimdale Haroldsson,
Lady Lorac Three Feathers,
Lady Sleet Gil’Shalos

From the Emerald Hills Sir Cabal,
Selka Shadowcat
Witnessed by Grand Duke Sir Aramithris of Meadowlake

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 Post subject: Re: High Principality
 Post Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 11:18 am 
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I think it is just not needed. We have Principality in the corpora now, and that means they are ready to put in a bid for Kingdom status. So the extra privileges aren't needed since they will be a Kingdom soon anyway. It isn't like how it used to be, you can become a Kingdom fairly easily once you meet the attendance requirement.

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 Post subject: Re: High Principality
 Post Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 11:27 am 
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This is meant for lands that can never qualify for kingdom status and gives them the closest thing to kingdon that the CoM will allow. no confederacy required.

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 Post subject: Re: High Principality
 Post Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 11:29 am 
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Because it is an option we are allowed we should keep it

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 Post subject: Re: High Principality
 Post Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 11:53 am 
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maybe I should elaborate.
A park under our rule that lays within our 150 mile radius therefor never having the ability of achiving kingdom status.
This serves several purposes. One it keeps them from controling normal kingdom bus or attempting to move the kingdom seat since they are alowwed to vote only on their internal politics except still having the ability to run for kingdom offices. two it is also meant to prevent the pop of kingdom prime from loss of intrest because nothe they want could ever pass with the like of such a large park being able to control all votes.

An example ...lets say Dreadmore was a single park 140 miles away with a pop of 100. Through controling the votes the monarcy and all gettogathers could be moved out of kingdom prime and even through an althing have the kingdom seat moved to their location. This could potentialy kill parks in the DFW area

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 Post subject: Re: High Principality
 Post Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 12:05 pm 
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Not only that but the current rule for principality are contradictory and ridiculous. First you have to be a Confederacy that demands you be split into 3 parks then you demand they get togather once a month to qualify??? If we rquire them to be a Confederacy to qualify for princeapality then the numbers should come from more than one park every month

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 Post subject: Re: High Principality
 Post Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:36 pm 
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I never liked having the Principality in Waco. It was a good group for a long time, but once the situation soured, it became a problem. Effectively, you end up with a situation where the EH is responsibility for a group but has very little leverage. At one point, the group was running with a handful of members but still had Principality status; the group had to be reminded that the EH could cancel their contract before they members who stayed agreed to voluntarily downgrade to Barony status. Which raises an interesting question: how do you downgrade the status of a group that is semi-independent? Do you downgrade them, suddenly turning them into a voting Duchy again?

While the EH has had a roving crown for a long time, I've leaned toward the idea lately that the "crown lands" should still be defined as being vaguely within the metroplex. I'd really like to Dreadmoor spun off into their own kingdom as soon as it could be done.


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 Post subject: Re: High Principality
 Post Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 6:45 pm 
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The problems with Waco could and have happened anywhere

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 Post subject: Re: High Principality
 Post Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:59 pm 
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falamar wrote:
The problems with Waco could and have happened anywhere


Not only do I agree, I will go further and say it's the most likely result.


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 Post subject: Re: High Principality
 Post Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 11:32 pm 
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lol really your goin to try to tell ME about waco??? lmfao

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 Post subject: Re: High Principality
 Post Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:13 pm 
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A very interesting concept indeed. I had never seen or heard of this write up before.

It has never been brought up or mentioned that Dreadmoor ...or anyone elected to an EH Kingdom seat from Dreadmoor...and there have been a few of us that have served in that capacity....would ever move the Kingdom seat. Nor have we ever seen ourselves as harming the DFW area parks. IF anything we have served EH with distinction and honor. EH is our sponsor, and something great to be respected.

We have contributed to the Kingdom with time, fundraising and enthusiasm. Many of us travel to every EH event. While there, many of us have crated some part of each event. (gate, feast, battlegames, worked security, done clean up or work weekends)

That means an average 6.5 hour drive one way for us. We've worked to encourage more Dreadmoor members to drive to Kingdom events ...to learn from EH as well as to help make every EH event successful.

I find it amazing that EH's northern parks would be considered a negative factor. We've made so many friends in the DFW area ...some of us have been squired by DFW Knights. Alby did a great job as EH Monarch twice and EH just Knighted him. Docsi also did a great job as Monarch and Regent. Out of 50 reigns (almost 51 reigns)..2 ppl not from the DFW area as Monarch.


other than us harming DWF , there are some good points being made here ...thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: High Principality
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:25 pm 
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I love my children but I hope they're not all living with me when they're 30.

Tigerhawke, I love the Dreadmoor people. There is no question that the group has contributed to the vitality of the kingdom. However, it's important to realize that the EH cannot continue to encompass large groups distant from the kingdom center indefinitely. You talk about travel and cultural interchange. That's great. But that can't go on forever. You won't always have a core group of people interested in trekking back and forth. Another thing is that the governance granted to a group is not easily rescinded (as with the Waco group). Just because the current crop of Dreadheads are great folks doesn't mean the next will be. Also, having a confederacy under a confederacy is just ripe for instability.

There are cases where a Kingdom's seat has been moved. You say Dreadmoor would never do that, but you can't speak for everyone, for people in the future. It may be that the EH might dwindle in the metroplex for a time, but I can't imagine it dying out; DFW is too huge and there are still plenty of people who love the Hills.

After the debacle with the Borderlands in Waco, I would strongly advise against any kind of "high principality." With the Kingdom retaining leverage over the group's contract but little else, tensions can easily escalate into a "nuclear standoff", that is, a threatened contract pull.

I am proud of the Rising Winds. I would not say I'd like to see Dreadmoor spin off if I weren't also proud of Dreadmoor. If a group can't get their act together, they can stay a Barony forever or whatever. But I expect more from Dreadmoor. With such a strong history of leadership, surely the group can hope to navigate its own destiny sometime in the near future. I'll admit I don't much about attendance numbers these days, but that's the thing to watch.

The Amtwiki page is a little vague, but it's still a while, I think, before Dreadmoor qualifies in any case. In the meantime, I don't see much value in creating a kingdom-in-all-but-name under the EH. It's been tried before. It was terrible. The end.


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 Post subject: Re: High Principality
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:13 am 
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I still am waiting to hear from you your"opinion" of why Waco failed since I was there to see it come crashing down. So plz tell me what you think you know.....

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 Post subject: Re: High Principality
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 3:15 am 
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Waco? As I recall, it went through several factional disputes, each one reducing the populace by a slice. It got down to barony size, but the ruling officers refused to downsize. The park monarch then quit, and the much smaller group heeded the warnings of the BOD and voluntarily downgraded in size. At some point, the group was officially disbanded, finally breaking the Borderlands contract. An HFS group split off. A new group formed in its place. Emerald Woods, was it?


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 Post subject: Re: High Principality
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 5:50 am 
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And what did any of that have to do with it being a HP? Nothing..and there is so much more to the story. Waco from day one had been volatile, several times from shire to HP had they almost broke apart and park monarchs walking away. Then presure from Baylor, the election rigging etc...
HP had jack shit to do with them breaking apart. To little imput from Kingdom is my view. The monarchy almost never visited Waco came here more than the reverse and then ultra suspecion made the pop think that the visiters to kingdom was lying about info passed on to the and it goes on and on. You my friend know nothing but generalities about Waco

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