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 Post subject: Crystal Groves
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:38 pm 
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At the request of Tigger and Elder, I am re-posting this here.

There have been serious accusations leveled at Amtgard in the Mid-Atlantic region. An anonymous e-mail accused Amtgard in the area of being a cover for a child pornography ring. This e-mail was forwarded to members of the Executive Committee and we forwarded it on to the Board of Directors (BoD) for Amtgard, Inc., The Kingdom of the Burning Lands. An emergency meeting of the BoD was called for the purpose of discussing this issue. This e-mail included both accusations that were totally unsubstantiated and some with considerably more evidence presented. The accusations with evidence all centered on the Duchy of Crystal Groves.


This is a serious matter that causes great concern in several areas. First and foremost, Amtgard as an organization is committed to do all in our power to protect the safety of any youth who play our game or attend our events. Second, we want to be a club who welcomes all members who respect our rules and participate in the game in a spirit of honor and good will. Third, the Board of Directors must recognize that we have a fiduciary duty to protect Amtgard, Inc., and to enact policies and procedures that protect the organization and ensure the continuation of the game.

The Burning Lands’ Board of Directors is not accusing anybody of any wrong doing. We do, however, feel that the situation is serious enough to require us to take the following actions:
1. The contract between Amtgard, Inc. and The Kingdom of Crystal Groves is temporarily suspended pending the outcome of an investigation. The purpose of this is to both acknowledge the seriousness of the charges and to provide time for the truth of the situation to be uncovered. This is effective immediately. Parks within the kingdom of Crystal Groves revert to the status of freeholds under the Burning Lands corpora during this investigative period.
2. The investigation will be conducted by the Amtgard Executive Committee, led by William Jordan (Michael Hammer of God). We anticipate this will be done in close cooperation with the leadership of Crystal Groves. The purpose is to discover if there is any factual basis for the accusation that Crystal Groves has allowed or been used to promote illegal activities that would be harmful to minors.
3. We anticipate that the investigation will result in a plan of action to be taken aimed at ensuring any accusations are properly addressed, that no young person is put in danger through association with Amtgard, and that Crystal Groves continues as a kingdom in Amtgard. However, the Board of Directors reserves the right to cancel the contract with Crystal Groves should the investigation indicate it is the only viable way to protect youth and ensure the integrity of the game.
4. The BoD will examine establishing a policy with regard to youth protection that is consistent with our game and the best practices of other organizations with youth members.

It is the collective wish of the Board of Directors of Amtgard, Inc. that this issue be resolved, any necessary corrective action taken, and the suspension lifted as soon as possible. The Executive Committee of Amtgard agrees with the actions taken thus far and the priorities of Amtgard Inc in dealing with this issue. The King and leadership of the Kingdom of Crystal Groves have already been informed and have begun their investigation.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation as we navigate through this situation.

It looks like I missed mentioning that the mundane police are already involved and that their investigation is clearly the important one.

I encourage those who want to respond or ask questions about this beyond the EH to go to http://www.electricsamurai.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26967&start=0 . That's where responses to questions can be easily tracked and recorded.


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 Post subject: Re: Crystal Groves
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Thanks for the cross post Michael.

Regardless of the outcome of the investigation, I think it would be prudent for the EH to develop a set of guidelines for members/officers who work with minors. I know in the SCA there was an incident that lead to a major lawsuit and they now have a "2 adult" rule so that no minor is ever left alone with an adult in a 1 on 1 situation. (This would seem to apply more to camping events than park days).

We have been fortunate that nothing like this has happened to children in our area.

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 Post subject: Re: Crystal Groves
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:25 pm 
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^ New thread for that?


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 Post subject: Re: Crystal Groves
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:01 pm 
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how would you suggest we implement something like that, Forest? A change to corpora? Change to TWF site rules? Give me some ideas to work with, or better yet, come up with a policy. The 2 to 1 policy is a good one. Boy scouts and most other youth groups use it. But there needs to be more than that in place, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Crystal Groves
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:06 pm 
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I disagree with the suggestion on other forums that we require an ID check against sex offender registries. Getting a ticket for peeing in public puts one on a sex offender registry. Having consensual sex with your minor girlfriend and her parents getting angry and pressing charges puts one on that list. And it’s permanent. What would be the collateral damage of instituting such a policy?


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 Post subject: Re: Crystal Groves
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:16 pm 
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The 2 adult 1 child ratio rule was put in place for children specific events. Since this kingdom does not do children specific events, there is no need for such a rule. However, if for liability reasons, we were to enact such a rule for kids quests, walks, etc... the general practice is two unrelated adults who has a child within the group of kids being watched over. Also, any child being left or dropped off to attend an activity, their parent should likely volunteer some of their time as well to be fair to the adults who are watching their kids.


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 Post subject: Re: Crystal Groves
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:50 pm 
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First, I think that any minor MUST be accompanied by a parent or guardian to any event. Second, for any children's activities, there should be a policy in palce that says 2 adults must be present at all times.

And I have to disagree with Aylin. While there are various reasons a person can get put on the Sex Offender registry, I am not willing to take a chance, nor do I think a parent who discovers that a member in on that list will want to hear that we allow them to be at events around minors because they are on the list for an "approved" reason.

As this is a mundane issue, I think the B.O.D. should draft a policy/policies and it should be posted to the website and the forums.

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"Of course you are Forest. You're like the Mr. Burns of EH." - Finn

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 Post subject: Re: Crystal Groves
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:33 am 
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An article about not looking the other way:

http://www.electricsamurai.com/main_pag ... Generalasd

This article focuses on (among other things) not looking the other way for (at least) officers. I can't believe I have to say this, but I have no interest in allowing convicted child sexual predators to even play our game.

As far as policy suggestions going forward, I like the combo of 2 adults and the sight/sound rule. If there is a sponsored children's event, the children must be monitored by at least 2 unrelated adults at all times, if there is not currently a sponsored children's event, minors under 14 cannot be out of sight or sound range of their parents. I think these are incredibly good ideas.

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 Post subject: Re: Crystal Groves
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Location: Razorhills, Dreadmoor, EH
As a parent of a 6 year old, and an older player (time in game, not age), I've come across instances with individuals in the past that were dealt with within the scope of law and never became public issue, but never anything on this grand a scale. I know when I wasn't single, and my ex and I took our daughter to events, she'd run around safely with other kids while one of us played and the other could keep an eye out. Now that I'm single, I can't imagine having to constantly shepherd my daughter everywhere.... kinda hard to reeve, play, or assist with feast AND keep a hawks eye on your child.

My first suggestion, having just read this and not pondered it for an extended period of time, would be to have a person or three (depending on the size of the event/number of kids) as "Small Herders" or some chinsy name. Place them on par with the O-Crats and anyone who wishes (or gets volun-told) must be willing to submit to a check of that offender list. As incentive for their troubles, allow the "Herders" to have gate fees waived and perhaps have them be first served at feast with the smalls. That may not sound like much, but they would effectively be as teachers/chaperones and deserve respect for serving the kids.

I'm not saying force them to be dump-your-kid-daycare victims, but more (as mentioned above) teacher roles. They can arrange kid quests, basic intro to A&S projects for kids like sewing a straight line, simple camp fire cooking and safety, basic leather working, art, etc etc etc; and the parents should have the common courtesy/sense to check in on their kids in the care of the Herders from time to time and see if the Herders need anything to make their day go easier.

As a plus, anyone who is a teacher, or going for a job as one could use that as a hell of a resume bullet, and anyone who's on the fence about having kids can quickly find out they don't really want them. *grin*

What's the best part about being a Herder? Tail lights!

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 Post subject: Re: Crystal Groves
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Just a quick update: It has been reported that the police have dropped the investigation.

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Brennon wrote:
The V8 mindset is not about "what is the minimum I can get away with doing" but rather "how can we all use these rules fairly so the game runs smoothly and we all have a good time."


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 Post subject: Re: Crystal Groves
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:51 pm 
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I imagine I'm probably going to catch some flak for this but... felt like throwing my 2 cents in on one lil thing...

xarasfox wrote:
Now that I'm single, I can't imagine having to constantly shepherd my daughter everywhere.... kinda hard to reeve, play, or assist with feast AND keep a hawks eye on your child.


Um... okay, look... that's a personal issue, and a really simple one to deal with. If you can't be responsible for your child at Amtgard... then you don't bring your child to Amtgard. If you can't participate in Amtgard without your child... then you don't participate in Amtgard. Child's safety wins over parent's(*-s') fun. End of story.

And to be clear, I'm not trying to attack you, and say you don't understand that.

Xaras, I met you once, last NPB, I remember your kid and your family, I'm sorry to hear you're now a single parent. You seemed like a... well, honestly, I didn't pay enough attention to say you seemed like good parent, but I can say you didn't seem like a bad one. I'm sure you place your child's safety very highly. That being said... I know from experience it can be hard to admit when something you really like doing, and really care about, becomes something you're not able to do (as much or at all), because of other responsibilities that come first. It sucks, but something that people have to accept is... if you bring your kid to park, or event... regardless of what other system might be in place, or what activities for them might have been planned, they are still your responsibility, and you still have to keep an eye on them. If something happens to them, you are still ultimately responsible, because you brought them into that environment.

If you do not feel you can adequately perform your duties as a parent while playing, reeving, or cooking, then...

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 Post subject: Re: Crystal Groves
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:47 am 
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Location: Razorhills, Dreadmoor, EH
I have spent the last almost ten years of my life putting the things I like on hold so I could get a BA for computer programming and systems analysis, get a career, trying to be a good dad, and a good might as well be husband. Believe me, you don't have to go into personal responsibility with me as far as kids go. I took an 8 year hiatus from the game to get my life stable so I could support a loving family (for all the good that did me).

What I was offering up there was not a personal gripe, just an option for something that could be done and the viewpoint that idea comes from. A problem was presented, I offered up "A" solution. Unless you put your kid on a leash, they're going to go running off if they're bored and that's simple fact. I've seen this (Kid-O-Crats) done back when I started in the SCA in 95-96 and it worked pretty well, and I've seen it done at amtgard events as well. Everyone was happy, and please note I did state:

"and the parents should have the common courtesy/sense to check in on their kids in the care of the Herders from time to time and see if the Herders need anything to make their day go easier. "

Which was meant to suggest you not take the Kid-O-Crat for granted as a free babysitter for a weekend and that you do whatever you can to help them.

Now, if you had kids you'd just sit around watching them or not go? Ok. I can deal with that. I understand your point, but do you actually have kids? *not an attack, just a question* It's easy to say don't come if you can't watch them when you have no experience as a parent yourself. You are right though, kid safety should win out. The last decade of my life was dedicated to serving others to keep them safe and happy.

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 Post subject: Re: Crystal Groves
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:10 pm 
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The 2 adults with kids was part of how Five Banners operated when we first formed that park ...in fact it was in a park corpora that we did as a Freehold. It worked well. I like Xara's suggestion , yet I also think that it falls on the parents shoulders to watch over their children at events. It falls on the parents to decide that if they are going to go socialize, drink to excess or be involved in activities that exclude watching over their little ones ...that they provide a sitter to protect those children 24/7.
OR leave them with someone for the weekend.

I wonder just how we could enforce a ruling on child protection/supervision at an event that supercedes how a parent(s)/guardian raises their child(ren)? Some are very good at watching their kids and some let their kids run unattended even into the night hours while they are off "playing".

Also if we do come up with a policy ..it should cover minors...right up to under drinking age, that could quite possibly end up in someone else's tent because they came to the event with their parents' permission, but without their parental supervision on site. Yes, we don't give minors a wrist band at gate ...it doesn't mean that they won't sneak a drink or more ...end up having poor judgement because of it ..OR that there isn't someone that might take advantage of that. Just how far do we go ...and how much more do we place on our volunteer event security?

just thinking out loud
TH


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