The Kingdom of the Emerald Hills

TWO WORDS....
AIR CANNON

You can call your Bow anything you want...!
It still won't shoot multiple Sphere's of Annihilation at one time.
But an AIR CONNON will...!!!
And You Call that "Balanced"...???
If so... Your Logic is Flawed.

just sayin'

But Finn, no one is saying "Let's put a part in the rulebook that says "You can call you fireball spell a gun because we encourage people to think of abilities as actual gun simulation."

We were talking about an individual who wnated to roleplay a pirate. Nothing in the discussion, except for your comments, equated that with palcing information about guns in the rulebook. I am not sure how a player who wants to be a pirate will suddenly spawn a group of people wanting Amtgard to be an airsoft game.

The logic isn't there. Yer reaching to prove a point and using (as you said yourself) a Slippery Slope argument to do it.

_________________
Forest Evergreen

Puppet Master of the EH

"Of course you are Forest. You're like the Mr. Burns of EH." - Finn

(insert titles and awards here)

Whoops my bad. I just realized that I'm obviously wrong. Sorry to have wasted y'alls time. Thought I was on to something, and was trying to be a harbinger of possible trouble to come. However upon further examination of the responses I am obviously in the wrong. Please return to your normally scheduled program.

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"A mind needs books as a sword needs a wetstone, if it is to keep it's edge.”
Tyrion Lannister

I do not suffer fools gladly, and fools with white belts never.

Mortem proditoribus.

"I am not sure how a player who wants to be a pirate will suddenly spawn a group of people wanting Amtgard to be an airsoft game."


CORSAIRS....!!!!

just sayin'

I would rather have compressed air in a large tube flinging spellballs at me, than a contraption made of old tent poles and bungee cords.

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==

Rayel

"...a contraption made of old tent poles and bungee cords."

Would that be Balista or Catapult...

While we were having this discussion I went and asked for some outside opinions from various people who actually do RP regularly at their parks. One of their responses is here: http://www.electricsamurai.com/main_pag ... ir=General

Let me know what you guys think.

I can't log into E-sam from work. I'll look at it when I get home this afternoon.

_________________
Forest Evergreen

Puppet Master of the EH

"Of course you are Forest. You're like the Mr. Burns of EH." - Finn

(insert titles and awards here)

Ten years ago (wow, that was a long time ago), an enthusiastic barbarian took the field, hacking and slashing in the third person. Ten years later, one of Amtgards greatest Lords of War asked him a question. By Sir Brennon's request, Bangor's submitting this role play appraisal of the V8 Amtgard. The posts have been kept relatively intact, but formatted for your reading pleasure. Please post your comments back in the article section of the forums, Bangor's sure to be lurking about with his axe.

Brennon EH wrote:
Bangor,

Since you're a thoroughly RPish guy, I wanted to get your opinion on how the rules effect RP. Bonus points if you can compare V6/V7/V8. I'm trying to make sure that the V8 rules allow for robust RP and provide ambiance and it's good to get an outside perspective on it.

Thanks,
Brennon

Bangor wrote:
Bangor honored by your request. Bangor'll start with the bonus points because they are tastiest. In V6, the strong suit of roleplay was required garb items, inclusion of monsters, and classes that made you feel like you were a barbarian; V7 saw the removal of monsters, only lip-service paid to questing and quest abilities, sashes that Bangor hated, and classes that made you feel like you were a barbarian; V8 has a specific quest game, streamlined combat, and classes that make you feel like you are a barbarian. For Bangor, this is a question of how roleplay is affected, if any requirements or system features are missing, and is most importantly - it larpable?

You’ve done the heavy lifting already, ambiance. The strength of Amtgard roleplay is in the class system with a smooth combat system. Your team managed to make it smoother, simpler, and maintained the swords and sorcery atmosphere. Above all, these were the primary requirements, and V8 excels here.

The next question is if V8 is larpable, and to that end, yes, absolutely. The Croatians, clearly the best larpers in the game, said the generality of damage types and quick casting in V7 is what makes Amtgard a good system for larping. Bangor can mirror those experiences with our Great Adventurer's Challenge, and say that the simplicity of the system greatly enhances the ambiance that you can create. Bangor has tried other larps, and has seen how out of control magic and damage types can quickly bring down the veil.

V8 is more extensible than the best of V6 and V7 combined simply by being more generic. This allows for a larger set of games without resolving too many specialty rules, which is awesome. Better yet, even though the abilities have changed considerably from the last revision, each class still has its own feel that is in line with cultural expectations. Questing is directly mentioned, with a classic example of how to proceed included. To Bangor, this is the single best addition, as many people only try things that are directly mentioned in the manual. You even manage to subtly direct people on how to roleplay better by using appropriate props.

Since our game is real-time, the best roleplay is achieved by tying situations with extrinsic artifacts that can also be manipulated in real time, i.e., using real locks operated by the monsters. Brilliant. Right there in the rulebook, condensed to just two paragraphs, you’ve done more for roleplay than bags of herbs, carrying around plastic flutes, or wizard hats. Bravo.

There is also a marked attempt to increase the level of garb on the field, including bonuses for good looking garb that fits the part, specific exceptions to penalties such as the shoddy armor penalty, and with even a single point of armor inferring a bonus, more people will likely wear armor. Better garb helps with making a better roleplay environment, so another win for roleplay in V8.

Weapons no longer need to be omnis to be systematically effective, due to the variance allowed by heavy padding. This will make for much sexier looking axes and hammers, and makes possible some harder designs, which could stand to increase the ambiance and environment even further.

Bangor specifically likes that there is no specific mention of archetypes. You aren’t going to find a lot of ninjas not playing assassin, clerics not playing healer, etc. Most folks try to pick the thing closest to the idea in their head, whereas the feeling Bangor gets from the current archetype crowd is that any class can be any thing. From a classic D&D or even class-based larp style, that’s just silly. By wording it with an example rather than using an amtjargon catchphrase, you’ve cleverly guided the ambiance that will resolve from the ruling. Sure, you are still free to play a warrior in fancy wizard robes, but it’s probably not going to happen. Bangor also finds many people mistake ambiance for roleplay, but that’s another discussion.

The only possible improvements Bangor can see would be bringing the DuA committee more on board and streamlining the roleplay manual in a similar fashion, with a dual-release when V8 goes live. A definition of a "page" player hasn't been included (my favorite character was as an arrow-retrieving page who couldn't fight, but was still a target). Bringing back peasant to the fold, and allowing polearms as 'look the part' would be nice for roleplay, as some of the best roleplay Bangor has seen came from the lowly-garbed peasant, but its removal as a non-standard class with no clear role is understandable. Having both flatblade and omniblade construction in the main rulebook could help increase the number of sword-looking things on the field. A phrase that states that people with mild disabilities or medical conditions can have separate rulings for safety reasons, such as posting, refusal of a dangerous spell action, etc, would be nice, but not necessary to increase general safety and accessibility to outliers. Other possible directions would be to advocate for another team to concurrently work on an official construction manual, with an exact list of what the V8 committee would like set in it. Expect those entries to be the standard that most people will go for, and adjust accordingly.

Overall, roleplay stands to gain a lot from V8. It is as robust as it needs to be, more flexible in numerous categories, and increases the ambiance of every class. Great work, Bangor still wants his throwing axe back, but it just might have to go next to the herbs on the belt to make way for better things.

Axe in the back,

Bangor

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Tips for visitors of MWG: Wear a cup.

Zelodie:

Monsters haven't been made for v8 yet. That will probably go to people who usually work on the Dor un Avathar once it passes. Thus, I can see how playing a Satyr in a v8 game might make things sort of tricky.

That said: you could easily make a Satyr-like character using a v8 class. They probably work best with "Bard".

The Satyr from the 8.1 Dor looks like this:


I would build a Satyr using a bard template which looked something like this:

Satyr Bard
6th Level:
Legend (1 pts) - Each Extension purchased gives double the uses. Swift may not be purchased or used.
Dervish (2pts) - Equipment costs are doubled. Each Verbal purchased gives double the uses.
1 x Song of Interference, 1/Refresh, Charge x 2
1 pts. roll to 5th

5th Level: (6 pts)
1 x Song of Survival, unlimited
2 x Lost, 4/Life
1 x Ambulent, 1/life
2 pts roll to 4th

4th Level: (7 pts)
1 x Song of Power, unlimited
2 x Restoration, 4/Refresh
4 pts. roll to 3rd

3rd Level: (9 pts)
1 x Song of Freedom, unlimited
2 x Extension (4/Life)
2 x Awe, 4/Life
1 x Break Concentration, 2/Refresh
3 pts. roll to 2nd

2nd Level: (8 pts)
1 x Song of Battle, unlimited
1 x Song of Visit, unlimited
2 x Empower, 4/Refresh
4 pts roll to 1st

1st Level: (9 pts)
1 x Equipment, Short Sword
1 x Song of Determination, Unlimited
2 x Confidence, 4/Refresh, Charge x 2
1 x Insult, 2/Life
1 x Release, 2/Life

This will roughly mimic a 6th-Level Satyr in the current Dor. You'll get limited immunities to Control and Subdual, as well as the equivalent of the Strong trait, and (nearly) unlimited Extensions. You'll also gain the option to simply make yourself immune to verbal magic, simply by singing. You loose Pass Without Trace and Commune, but Song of Survival and Song of Visit are equivalently the same - with the added bonus of Satyr-esque singing.

You do loose 'Charm' and 'Legend', but they're replaced with numerous charm-like spells (Insult, Awe, Lost), and gain some more traditional mind-altering fey-like abilities (such Restoration, and Break Concentration). Song of Power lets you set up a Satyr like song and help your friends use their magic/abilities better/faster.

I would simply roleplay out the Vulnerabilities. Help out bards on the opposing team who do a good job singing. Ham up being cursed and stripped of your abilities if someone dispels you. The rest of the time try and spend your time singing and dancing helping people who please you, and irritating people who annoy you or talk bad about your singing. V8 Bard was practically made for Satyr-like personas, and I think you could easily rock out a v8 Satyr-bard. Read up on the abilities and good luck next time!

JuJu, I appreciate your help with this.

I do feel as though I'm pulling off topic.

So, sent you a PM so that we can continue this conversation without the possibility of distracting or diverting the thread. :)

I'd say this is more on topic than most of this thread.

This thread was intended to discuss possible RP limitations of V8. So, adapting the mechanics of RPing a satyr to v8 is spot on.

The World According to LARP

Brennongard II… the New “American Gladiator”
Sponsored by “Warlord Sports”

Amtgard… Tunic or Tabard

Brennongard… Under Armor or Jersey

Amtgard… Dress in Character to Play

Brennongard… Look the Part for a Bonus

Amtgard… Garb reflects the Class

Brennongard… Colored Baldric designates Class

Amtgard… Number of lives established by Class

Brennongard… Number of lives decided by Game Master

Amtgard… Fall down when dead

Brennongard… Put sword overhead and walk away when dead

Amtgard… Tiki torches, campfires, candles and covered flashlights pointed downward

Brennongard… Floodlights, flashlights, headlights all in your face

Amtgard… Live Action Role Play Group

Brennongard… Foam Padded Combat Game

Amtgard… Weapons should not cause pain

Brennongard… Weapons should not leave marks

Quote Brennon himself…
“…it’s funny to hit people in the groin.”

The same people who brought you “Stick” and “Rodney” now bring you Brennongard II.

Just Say “NO” to V8

Why I felt it was diverting was because the discussion was suddenly delving into specifics of MY character. I don't believe myself to be a good example of your typical conversion into V8, since I tend to play more as I FEEL Satyr should be played rather than how any rule system deems fit. And, the reason I'm able to get away with this is without any opposition is because I'm actually making myself LESS powerful than I could be versus breaking the rules to make myself MORE powerful.

So, a transition for me would be relatively simple, no matter what I plan to infiltrate. Whereas a more powerful or opportunistic monster would have much more challenges adjusting than I.

As the GM of Monsters, I highly recommend using a more powerful PC as an example, such as a Were creature or a Titan, or any other popular monster whose ratio is deadlier than my mere 1:1. Although, I do like where this line of thinking is going. I would like to see how Monsters do fit in this new vision of AMTGARD. As is, and I could be wrong, it seems like we're a casual afterthought to a much larger debate.

As much as I would love to be the creature to represent this issue, I don't feel I would give the less ambivalent monsters a proper representation. I think that by making me the poster child monster would take away from any difficulties that the majority of our non-human populace will surely experience! Do I hear any volunteers of monsters who feel they would struggle more than I who are willing to place themselves on the proverbial chopping block to be a more accurate example of the plight we fear V8 might present? As in any other monster issue, you have my full support!

Werewolf writeup 6th lvl druid with bonus for garb.
Groping tentacles represents 1 life where your prey is held by fear.
3 lives with ironskin & lyconthropy (Attuned) 2 pts section invuln armor immune to command armor breaking weapons.
3 lives with ironskin and bearskin (Attuned) 2 pts section invln immune to command shield breaking weapons
6 heals per refresh after eating a fresh corpse.
the 4 swifts represent 2 particuarly fast shifts from human to werewolf!
2 short weapons

6th lvl Avatar of Nature -
6th lvl Groping Tentacles 1/refresh
4th lvl Attuned 3/refresh
4th lvl Lyconthropy 3/refresh
4th lvl Ironskin 6/refresh
4th lvl Swift 4/refresh
3rd lvl Bear Strength 3/refresh
2nd lvl Heal 6/refresh
1st lvl Cancel Unlimited
1st lvl 2 Short Weapons -

put on your garb and cast your spells you are now a 1:1 werewolf.