The Kingdom of the Emerald Hills

Per the Emerald Hills Corpora:

Griffin {10/Special, Masterhood of the Lion)
*for courage, chivalry, and honor on the battlefield or in a tournament

As defined by Sir Tawnee Darkfalcon/Sir Franchesca (TBC)
Order of the Griffin:
Given for: courage, chivalry, and honor on the battlefield. This is a high level awards and provincial leaders are strongly urged to consult with the Monarch before bestowing this award. This award is also one of the highest orders given. It has been witnessed to be given for accepting defeat graciously, fighting with respect when fighting a lesser opponent, allowing the opposite sex to fight with their full potential and die with dignity in battle or tournament, and fighting for the Honor of your Kingdom, emphasizing on honor and gracious defeat. This type of description takes the pressure off of winning and stresses honor instead. All these combined and more can earn a Griffin.

What's it mean in your kingdom?

Why's it not considered a ladder award?

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The general who advances without seeking fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do service for his sovereign, is the jewel of his kingdom. -Sun Wu

I voted yes, it should, that's my opinion, however all the amt-kingdoms use it in combination with other awards classes.

Personally, i think its the only award the reflects character over contribution/perticipation in the whole list besides Jovious and Mask. This said, it's also what makes it a non-ladder award.

I think i talked to Nev about this years ago, and he said in a ladder situation, it should be horribly difficult to even get a 6th or 7th, much less an 8th-10th order for this award, as having more than one already demonstrated YEARS of honorable practice in the field.

I have 4x of these and I dont see myself being able to do much more than I already have onthe field...I grant quarter...I will not breach contract...the list goes on...

...the bottom line is that in order to make 8th, one would have to stay consistent for a long period of time in the eyes of not only his peers, but also historically in my opinion. That said, that makes an mastery in this arena virtually impossible unless the criteria are toned down, which I do NOT agree with.

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[align=center]Sirrakhis Larethian of the Emerald Hills
G R E E N D R A G O N S
House Larethian-Got Newbs?[/align]

I think that it is an award that, if earned, lends strength to the disscussion of a person's character in looking towards a potential knighthood, but in and of itself should not lead to one.

Griffons show honor on the field and in tournament. They show that a person is willing to take the shot that no one saw land. it shows that they care more about being fair than winning. That, to me, shows the personal teaits of someone who I would want in the belted circle.

But unless we readically changed the 4 orders of Knighthood, it does not (by itself) put a person into any of the 4 areas. Also, what is the increasing criteria to earn a griffon? What makes taking a shot or displaying honor on the field worth a 1st level vs. an 8th level? It is completely subjective and has no readily availible criteria to set as a standard.

I would never want to do away with them. I think they are great awards to recognize they players who help make the game enjoyable and set a good example to others, but I don't see them as fitting into the "ladder" awards.

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Forest Evergreen

Puppet Master of the EH

"Of course you are Forest. You're like the Mr. Burns of EH." - Finn

(insert titles and awards here)

I think that perhaps at one time they could have been, but that they oughtn't to be anymore. Mostly it's 'cause of what Sirrakhis said - the Gryphon is given out for one's character, not one's achievements. And for the most part, knighthoods are given out for achievements. So Gryphons IMO don't fit into the ladder system as far as getting one's Masterhood goes, though I suspect they would be taken into considerations by the Powers That Belt once a person's name comes up.

Back in the day, and probably technically still, Gryphons combined with Lions toward a Flame belt, because Lions were also more or less 'character' awards. They were for folks who showed *trends* of service toward the kingdom - maybe you could never actually put fingers on everything they did, or it would seem ridiculous to give out Crimsons for every little thing they did in the last three months, but you couldn't deny that the person had been acting in service for the good of the game. Thus, when you combined Lions and Gryphons to determine someone's eligibility for a Flame belt, you were pretty much saying this person was earning their Flame belt for their overall behaviour rather than for an easily denoted string of achievements.

However, the last few times I've seen Lions given out, they've been less for that and more for "damn, dude, you done did somethin' huge, and a Rose just ain't big 'nuff to show ya how much we 'ppreciate it!". So they've evolved from character awards to achievement awards, and thus aren't really compatible with Gryphons anymore.

Should there (continue to) be a Lion/Gryphon combo allowed, assuming Lions successfully revert to being 'character' awards? Should Flame belts (still) be earnable through force of character without necessarily producing anything spectacular? That's up to the CoM and ultimately the populace. Though if they're moving toward a system that disallows 'battlefield prowess' as a Sword belt criterion, I suspect the Lion/Gryphon Flame belt will also be discontinued.

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"And in the end, we decide if we're remembered for what happened to us or for what we did with it."
~ R. K. Milholland

To clarify, the proposal does not "disallow" anything. Battlefield prowess is not in the Corpora as a way to Knight someone. But we have done it. The CoK could still give approval to someone who did not meet the criteria, and the monarch could still Knight anyone they choose criteria or no.

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Forest Evergreen

Puppet Master of the EH

"Of course you are Forest. You're like the Mr. Burns of EH." - Finn

(insert titles and awards here)

Taldak got his knighthood from having 23 Griffons. Should we deny people like this?

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Arch-Duke
Arch-Count
Sir Falamar LaCrane

Of course not. But that shuld be (and was) the exception, not the rule. he also had some Lions to go with that.

Again, this proposal is simply meant to unify what awards mean across the board, not to dictate who can or can not be Knighted. It in no way takes any power away from the Monarch.

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Forest Evergreen

Puppet Master of the EH

"Of course you are Forest. You're like the Mr. Burns of EH." - Finn

(insert titles and awards here)

I've tried to bite my tongue here, but am having a hard time. I think that I just want to ask one question.

If griffons are for honor, then how does one get knighted for being honorable?

In my uneducated opinion honor is a virtue, not a box top.

Well since they stack with Lions I would assume that whomever created the award felt that a combination of Battlefield Honor and Hella-Service was the same as lots of regular service... I personally think that Griffons should be more of a side bar... They don't directly contribute to your being qualled for knighthood, but they do speak about your character and should be considered just to get a more complete picture of the person. I also think that Masks & Jovius awards should be treated in the same light. They don't directly contribute to being qualled for a flame belt, but shouldn't be ignored because they can give insight into the character of the person...

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Draeven
"If you don't think drugs have done good things for us, then take all of your records, tapes and CD's and burn them" - Bill Hicks

"Until we stop viewing making a knight into a non-knight a fate worse than death we'll never be able to clean up knighthood." - Glen