The Kingdom of the Emerald Hills

First off, to those who took the time to create this submission to rewrite our corpora, good job. This document is much more readable than the last version and, in many places, is easier to understand. There are several changes that I agree with, a few I really don't and others I'm not totally sure about yet.

Saying that, I do believe that giving the populace only 3 weeks to come to a decision on this is asking a bit much. I know that there are those who would love to debate fine points of this document, including punctuation and spelling, until everyone would be willing to vote for or against just to shut them up. But, there should be a decent middle ground.

I would like to see this moved back to the January allthing, giving everyone time to process it, as well as more time to give suggestions and commentary. It would give people a chance to sit down with each other, getting the perspective of both old hands and fresh eyes.

As it stands, I can't make a full decision on if I would vote for or against right now. I haven't really had a chance to really dig into the details and see what I really like and where there might be unintended consequences.

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Lord Malran Singollo
Duke of Dreadmoor
Patriarch, House Singollo
Lettusio-Rex, Dreadmoor Fey Jackalope
Member of the House of H.O.P.S.

I am not certain what you are trying to say here, as it seems to align mostly with what I said in my previous post. There are few people that understand better than I what those expectations are. I did not earn a belt because I won some popularity contest, nor in accepting it, did I acquire anything of great benefit to me. I took the belt with a purpose in mind to do good, starting with a new voice in the Circle.



I can name at least two people who would do one or both of those things: Brennon, and whoever made the formal complaint against me in the first place. Obviously, you are fully aware of that.



What exactly do high standards have to do with the privilege of knighthood? All that removing someone's belt can do is remove them the CoK's authority to hold them to any standard. There is coherent basis to this argument, and the reason is that you are not stating your true motivations. While I don't have any ability to read minds, the only logical purpose I can see in this change is to create anxiety, as if our knights would be better motivated by threats than by a sense of responsibility.

Considering the changes to the Circle's composition and authority alongside this provision for stripping knighthoods, I see a common thread: removing the Circle further from the glare of democracy, correction, and judgment by the populace. I agree knights should be held to a higher standard and that knighthood carries a respect from others. Those whose respect is most important is the populace as a whole, those that the knights seek to inspire. Sometimes the knights tell the populace what is a knight. I say the knights should also be listening.

It is worse, both for the populace and for the Circle, the more and more the Circle becomes a private club, with a private government. The Circle should unite the wisdom of the knights, not enlist them in an overlordship of Amtgard that has made knighthood seem to be much more than it is.

You are correct, Forest. Knighthood is not a mystic prize, and the earth will not rot nor the skies split if the wrong person is knighted. What is there to fear but the inconvenience of our mistakes remaining honest and visible, and the hard duty to help our brothers and sister who have strayed?



I agree with this, and I further believe all substantial changes should receive separate votes. Perhaps this version will pass. However, if it doesn't, I'd like to suggest starting over with a version that ONLY corrects the text and changes text to more accurately reflect what we do now.

My "true motivation" is to have structure. To not hide our heads in the sand and pray that bad things never happen. Instead, I prefer to have things in place that will allow us to deal with things if they occur.

In keeping with my "true motivation" I would rather see the CoK behind the removal of a belt thatn an althing vote. Why? What could possibly be my "true motivation"? It's as simple as I have said. It would be HARDER to get a belt removed via the CoK and Monarch than via an althing.

Why do I think that? Because most knights don't want belts to be stripped, EVER. They have a fear that there will be a "witch hunt" if they ever vote to remove a person's belt. So you can be sure that for the CoK to agree to remove a belt, the knight in question would have to have engaged in behavior that either at its core is so against our own moral code that it demands such an action, or prolonged behaviors over time that are seen as detrimental to the game but that the player refuses to correct.

But let's make this even easier. Darkangel, I am not going to try to take away your belt. My dislike of your knighting is no secret, but that is no reason for a belt to be stripped. As have said consistently, it would take specific acts of inappropriate behavior before I would want to see any belt up for such a discussion.

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Forest Evergreen

Puppet Master of the EH

"Of course you are Forest. You're like the Mr. Burns of EH." - Finn

(insert titles and awards here)

Translation of Malran's post : Alby is reading it to him and we all know just how hard the bigger words are for the Bar Bar to understand ;P

At last. The real difference erupts: you feel that removing someone's knighthood is "dealing with it"; I think it's "running away from it."

Who or what, exactly, are we being protected from? Is there any situation in which a knighthood was bestowed properly, where you would like to remove it, while letting that player continue to play Amtgard?



Currently, the situation is that the Althing could do it.
In your proposal, the CoK + Monarch could do it. Also, the Althing could still do it.

Unless CoK + Monarch actually have a zero chance of doing anything, what you are saying literally cannot be true.

If you do not agree this is true, please state what is untrue in what I have just said.



That's a lot of horseshit, Forest. There was an actual witch hunt against me, which you decided to be a bystander to, and I have heard of discussions being raised concerning other knights. You are trying to claim that something cannot happen which literally did happen. Maybe you would like to apologize to me and swear that you would never let that happen again, but you cannot change that it happened.



When Brennon informed me he had graciously decided not to strip my belt, I laughed in his face. Why should I fear losing something I lived without for so many years? What value is an honor that would be treated so cheaply? I have no fear of losing my belt. First of all, the votes are not there. Second of all, so what? It would make me angry, I guess, but really, it goes back to that saying: your loss.

It's kind of charming how you never miss an opportunity to mention how much you dislike my knighting. I guess that really bothers you, doesn't it?

But this isn't about me. The only reason my name came up was as an example. Someone else brought it up. The reason it is relevant is because you continue to say things that simply aren't true. People WOULD like to strip belts, if they could. Some people DO want to engage in witch hunts. Some people apparently think it's a good use of the Circle's time to argue about whether someone sucks so much we should punish them... by kicking them out of the Circle, so we don't talk about them anymore. If you say one more time that people are not out to take belts, I'm going to call you a liar.

I was there, Forest. It happened. It could happen again, it could happen to someone else. And you are bringing us one step closer to this being a real thing.

From where I’m standing, Forest is following through with pretty much what Darkangel is pointing out.
When Brennon called me into his private little meeting, he told me the movement to strip DA’s belt came from “a couple of knights”…
I didn’t ask the names.
He said “most” of the knights who were asked agreed to strip the belt. The only reasons he gave for doing this, was that DA wasn’t voted in by the Circle & his character wasn’t knightly…

One would have to ask… would King B have stripped the belt without an Althing vote?
No announcement, no discussion in the circle, no proper vote…
Just the King’s word that “most” of the knights agree.

Forest continues to say (quite ‘un-knightly’ I might add) that Darkangel did not “earn” his knighthood…
So, what constitutes “earning” a knighthood…???
That has been the debate for many, many years…

I do know the reaction some of the knights had to Darkangel’s knighting…
Very similar how some of the Burning Land’s knights reacted when Nevron was knighted.
They didn’t think he deserved to be knighted… didn’t think he “earned it”…!!!

Does the Monarch make the Knight by the right of office…?
Or does the Circle make the Knight by the right of acceptance…?

It takes a Knight to make a Knight…
But the Crown decides, not the Circle.

To Sir Forest, who keeps insisting that Sir Darkangel did not “earn” his title…
I suggest you read Queen Reyna’s list of how to act when others receive awards.
It might help with your “issues” in this matter.

Just sayin’

Phoser wrote:”Very similar how some of the Burning Land’s knights reacted when Nevron was knighted.
They didn’t think he deserved to be knighted… didn’t think he “earned it”…!!!”

My Bro is more right than he is wrong in the above statement. Granted, I had no idea that the BL Knights at the time had a problem with my knighting. How could I of? It’s not like any of them came and spoke to me afterwards. Being one subject of two Monarchs demented game of one up-menship didn’t help me out. I’ll be the first to admit that my first belt came to me about 5 months early. By the Corpora of the time I could of received my first belt in December of 88’. But that’s just not the way it worked out. And with hindsight being 20/20 I can look back now and somewhat understand why people were upset over my early title. Over the next couple of years I worked hard to prove our first Queen right in her decision to speed up the process in my case. I know I felt like some sort of target on the field for all the other knights and their squires during those early days. But it was those hardships (the uncalled for hard ass shots, headshots, flat tires, and petty theft) that made me even better than I was at the time.

I still remember the day that a certain BL Knight pulled me to the side at an event to apologize for his actions and what-not over my early knighting. He told me then that he thought I had earned my belt(s) and just wanted to let me know as such. I was respectful in my thanks but inside I was still pretty pissed off over the whole mess.

For what it’s worth, when I was asked about my own opinion to the idea of removing Darkangels belt I was against it. Not because I’m some sort of secret fan of his. Cuz I’m NOT! But I did feel that nothing good would come from us doing such a thing. Unfortunately, while opinions may keep a belt from a person, they should never ever be used to take it away. The actions of the Knight should be the sole deciding factor in that.

I guess in some ways I can identify with Darkangel and his less than honorable treatment by the Knights of our Kingdom. It’s not really his fault. Nor do I feel any blame should be placed on Delphos for being the Knight that performed the Knighting. As the GM of Knights at the time, Delphos was simply following the Corpora and performing the task as ordered by the current Monarch. Nor do I think that that particular option should be removed from our Corpora. If a Monarch wants to risk their own reputation by circumventing the popular knighting process than that’s their right as Monarch.

It’s a serious risk.

Before any of this crap is started about how the RGK hasn't done anything in the last two years please take into consideration these points:

1) For the last two years (since October of 2009) I've has been laid up with a injured foot that put me in a wheelchair again last Nov 2010 to March of this year because of another surgery. Because of this I have been unable to railhead any RGK work events, so none have been set, started nor finished.

2) Until I came to this land and started railheading work weekends, working my ass of with the RGK, you didn't even have water to the feast area...even though you people had been using the land for OVER EIGHT YEARS! Because of my quick thinking and what was granted to me in a separation by an angry ex-husband, I was able to procure his trencher THUS enabling us to get BOTH water AND electricity to the feast area. The cost of the water and electrical lines were the responsibility of the RGK. Yet ANOTHER great RGK accomplishment that I DID NOT SEE alot of you helping with, yet you ALL seem to enjoy it's pleasures when it comes feast time.

Yet I hear that you still want to disband the RGK? If you do so, you take away any and all help that I will ever have to get help with it's upkeep and growth. For without the help from the kingdom and the RGK, you might as well just open up your pockets, because we will have to bring in outsiders to do the work. And those guys don't work for free. I understand that the hourly wages are quite high now days.

I know that you're supposed to 'play' at a park so many times a month to be eligible to vote. but because I'm so busy here taking care of Tanglewood, I don't get to play with you guys. I have plans to start a park here and have the people to do it. But until then I have to put up with the asses in this world that think that just because THEY think that the RGK doesn't do anything, then it should be taken away from those of us who know better.

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Samantha Three Jugs
(aka: Susan Hall, the crazy lady that lives at Tanglewood Forest)

P.S. ~ Don't piss off a lady that has a knife and rifle target in her backyard.

Rendezvous'rs are just kids with really BIG playgrounds....and black powder toys that go BOOM!

I know that you have worked hard on the land. I know Sutra worked with you to set up multiple work weekends this summer. I know lots of ppl went down to help out too.
Yes we all need to pitch in and work on the land that we enjoy.

So the continuation of set work weekends of projects to be completed or started should continue. Heck there is absolutely no reason why we can't do some work at every ER/Coronation or MR. It is not as if every hour at such an event ,that we have an organized quest, battlegame, ect going on. So we should all pitch in at events to put us that much closer to the things we want on the land ..or even the mundane up keep of the land.

Post up what you need done ThreeJugs and keep the work weekends going.

Like I said, vote NO on every issue on the ballot for the althing vote. Don't let all your work at the land be for nothing.

Three Jugs, I can't think of anyone who isn't appreciative of your efforts personally. I don't think that's the issue. Maybe we could hear more about the problems with the RGK.

Problem with the RGK is simple.. Some folks have issues sharing the gate income with the RGK and want it all for the kingdom. We get rid of the RGK and good luck being able to get any of the projects we want to do done cause getting money from kingdom can be worse then pulling teeth

Geesh ...all the pages of posts complaining, whining, attacking ect and NOT one person stepping forward with any suggestion(s)for making our corpora better than ...vote no?
Where were all of you during the on line meetings?

incredible!!

I had a few "suggestions" & bet ya won't see any of them up for a vote.

"... one-line meetings?"

What a Joke!

You wanna-be Dragon Puppets sure know how to suck up!
Hell, maybe you'll get yourself a green & black belt for your efforts.

just sayin'