The Kingdom of the Emerald Hills

For those of you who might intermingle my own arguments against this “revision” of the EH Corpora with those of Sir Darkangel, let me say this…

What I am calling attention to, is the removal of the clause stating that Althing Voting will be held to decide rule changes. Yes, I know that we have not held Althing Voting to decide rules in several years… That is my major problem with the current system.

As far as attendance requirements for voting…
I believe that is also a matter of Althing Vote for the general populace.

However, I do feel that knights should be held to a higher standard and as such should decide, as a guild, any and all requirements for voting within the guild.
That being said…
I also firmly believe that any monarch should hold the power to knight whomever they feel deserving of such…
Regardless of the opinion from the circle of knights.
Knights serve Kings & Queens…
Not the other way around.

Just sayin’

Am I correct in reading that Knighthoods would be outranked by all other nobility in the order of precedence (section D)? In the previous version, Knights outranked Lord/Lady, and I'm of the impression it is far more difficult to earn the title of Knight.

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BaronetYufukiYusef
WaA to Squire Lady Dailyn

Oh dang did not notice that when I looked through the write up. You are right Forest is wanting to change that too. Thats just absurd .

Yes you are correct and it was explained why in last night's meeting ...another meeting is set for tonight at 6:30pm. Yes it takes a long time to become a Knight in EH ..and we hold them to a high standard and we respect them, just because they are listed at the bottom of the page in titles of nobility does not detract from what anyone goes through to become a Knight.

A perhaps good example of a Knight's status is all over in movies, literature (factual or fiction) Knights served Lords/Ladies and all the other titles. They were bound to serve a Kingdom or Monarch, many earning rewards for doing so.

Sir is a lesser title than Lord. It is a higher award in our game, but as a title, it is a lesser title.

But that is irrelevant, Knighthood will always have an special place becuase it was made an award and so anywhere we put it, unless it was over Grand-Duke, would seem odd because it is so revered. But then it would be odd that a Sir title outranked a Grand-Duke.

So the list reflects the title of Sir, but it will never be able to reflect peoples onpinions on Knighthood.

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Forest Evergreen

Puppet Master of the EH

"Of course you are Forest. You're like the Mr. Burns of EH." - Finn

(insert titles and awards here)

In Amtgard, Lord had always been the lowest title of nobility...
Well, that is until Now.

Yes, historically Lord is above Knight...
But this is/was suppose to be our Fantasy Role-play Game where Knights are/were held in high esteem. Guess that is now out the window as well.

My first title was Lord, given to me by Aramitiris...
Didn't have quite the same effect on me or Amtgard as when I was Knighted in the order of the Flame for Service.

Guess all the white belts will have to get use to being nothing but Lowly Knights.
Oh, the horror of it all...!!!

Welcome to the world according to Forest...
Have fun Ya'll.

just sayin'

I withdraw my Althing submission at this time. There is just no way to even have that conversation right now with all the Corpora revision stuff going on.

I too thought it was a damned odd that knighthoods got bumped down the peerage, but people should/will still respect and strive for knighthoods. Knighthoods are so damn hard to earn I believe they should be bumped up the chain right under GMR.

This too is minor in the grand scheme of things, but Belt Favor Color in current VIII.F.5. (revised XI.B.5.) lists a couple of classes with masterhood colors that can be seen and recognized such as Archers getting a bit of White to add to their Orange or Warriors Silver/Purple sash. Many of us are simply the same color, yellow on yellow in the case of Wizards. Even if you delineate it with a border as suggested on your sash, it's just more of the same and not easily visible. Can we get some color changes that may stand out such as:
A strip of White on Red for healers for the blood and healing power that flows through them? Perhaps grant assassin masters a stripe of camo because they used to dress in Rambo approved garb?
Monks perhaps can earn a bit of black as if a black belt?
Bards might have blue with a stripe of something gaudy/florescent?
Druids could sport some minor stripe of fuzzy to show their animal kinship?
Scouts would also work well with a bit of camo.
Wizards? Perhaps a spot of black or red for the flaming death we rain from afar when we're not enchanting everything.
Honestly, I believe distinct and easily discernible color differences will make it easier to determine a class master.

Again, I realize there are much larger issues in the new changes than simple fashion choices, but they are already being debated by people much more knowledgeable than I. *nods to Sir Delphos, Sir Forest, etc*

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Baronet Xaras Fox
Twice Master Wizard
GM Wiz of Razorhills and Dreadmoor
Mage-at-Arms to Sir Alby Kzan
Brewer of Laughing Fox

Thanks...
I'll take the "nod" but you can keep the Sash.
Sashes Suck...!!!

just sayin'

Sashes have sucked since they were first brought up. It must have been a stick-jocks idea to reduce our garb standards to a simple sash. Hell, even color blind people should be able to look across the field and just by seeing the garb their opponent is wearing, be able to figure out what class the player is playing. But once the sash rule came around all the color blind players have been at a loss. I wonder how many decent Amtgardians we have lost due to their being “color challenged”? Good, distinct garb being worn by a player should be the norm. Not some simple sash of some color that at times has no ties to the class being played. Case in point Orange for an Archer. Did we just limit our color selection so much that all the good colors were taken before the time to decide for the Archer class came up?

AS for the Knights being lower on the Noble table of rank… In the Real Life aspect… The lowest noble rank is Knight; the highest is Emperor. Several aspects of the real world noble ranks are governed by strict protocol, including the title (the formal reference to the person in print or by reference), style (the method of addressing the individual personality), and precedence (the relative seniority of the individual among others). In addition, customary prerequisites for each noble rank vary widely.

Knighthood is not hereditary. Although it may be "inherited" in the sense that it is a privilege of birth, it does not pass on through succession. The title is therefore never associated with hereditary lands. While being the lowest of noble ranks, knighthood is awarded in recognition of achievement or service. Knighthood is one of the only titles a commoner could earn by his/her dedicated service to the Crown. As such, a knighthood is coveted by non-nobles and is seen as more attainable than membership in the noble peerage. Knights are not members of the peerage and are thus not subject to all the protocols that other Nobles are. Knights instead belong to orders of knighthood and are awarded privileges according the that order. In addition to the use of the title Sir or Dame, the knight may suffix the initials of the order of knighthood after the name.

All titles of the rank Baron or above, landed or not, are hereditary. So you could say that while in Amtgard the title of Knighthood is held above and sought out even more than some of the lesser nobility titles like Baron, Marquis or even Duke. In real life the title was really just a glorified “ata-boy”. They were kind of like the rock stars of their day.

Just want to point out that garb is still required by the rulebook. This is where we need strong reeves and park officers to enforce that rule.

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Forest Evergreen

Puppet Master of the EH

"Of course you are Forest. You're like the Mr. Burns of EH." - Finn

(insert titles and awards here)

LOL!! Unfortunately this statement is easier said than done. But I guess even a Puppet-master can have dreams. And where as there are all sorts of dreams in this world. Dreams ranging from Nightmares, to Pipe dreams, this one sounds a bit like a crack-pipe dream.

Sashes are evil. They lead innocent people to commit heinous crimes, crimes even against fashion.

The two worst possible things for the Circle of Knights to become, on one hand, a group dedicated to suppressing new viewpoints or dissent, or on the other hand, becoming a lackadaisical retirement club for ex-players.

There really is no reason for the Circle to have the power to define its own membership and attendance, especially if the kingdom goes to 6+ attendances.

Note: I understand that some of this has been discussed in this thread already, but this post was written for a different venue and brought here at the suggestion of Elder ("I do not understand why you didn't post this list in the forum thread as was specifically requested") in the comments on it in it's original location.

There is a lot I feel should be considered by members, and made specifically visible, in the way of changes proposed.

Addition of restrictions on Pro-Tem positions.

Change of definition of "Occasionally."

New restrictions regarding less than 6 month residents.

After an Althing item the contrary (linked here) in 2006, this proposed version of the corpora states the exact opposite of that Althing's result on concurrent offices at different levels in regards to Monarch and Regent without a specific Althing item on revocation

EH just recently had an Althing item on PM and Champion being able to give out awards (link) and it was voted yes. That is removed, also without a specific Althing item on revocation.

Regent would now be responsible for two feasts instead of just the Crown Coronation Feast.

I:A:1... You might want to double check the articles of incorporation (available here), it might be well worth looking into, specifically: (capitalization and punctuation as per document)

and not far below that, on the same page:


Still not specifically disallowing members declaring for Champion and _________ (whatever other high office) even though they can't hold them both, and even though Monarchs and PMs repeatedly rule members cannot.

IV:C Gives the 20% petition and the 2/3 Althing item for officer removal, yet each of the high offices has a contradictory statement within it's description.

Shuffle of title hierarchy.

XI:H:2 shall vs. should - From recommendation to mandate.

A codification of revocation of Knighthood, the EH has done it before, this establishes a how-to.

Omission of RGK.


Members having and taking the time to compare old and new before making a decision and casting a vote, for or against, is all I'm hoping for.

I have made my decision on what is currently presented and all I'm going to say is that I see both good and bad changes in this, it's a matter of which end has more weight for me.

I believe the same could be said for "good, distinct garb" defining what class you're playing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally on the "we need better garb" side, I just also realize that we're slack on the methods to getting that done.

As for the Knight being below Lord issue, I'm not sure how much it matters. Knight always seemed like it existed outside the normal lines of rank, and people respect knights (begrudgingly in some cases) regardless of what their line in rank is. Moreover, to my knowledge most knights didn't become so overnight, and I assume that they did things to earn other titles along the way. I'd like to believe that the CoK doesn't elevate people who meet the requirements of one belt or another, but haven't shown themselves worthy enough to even earn Lord.

On the new corpora, I was wondering if it's going to be an all-or-nothing vote, or if we'll be able to vote on changes one at a time. The latter would take longer, but might get more accomplished. I like many things in the new corpora, but I dislike several others, and I'd hate for the people who worked so hard on the corpora to have it all thrown away because the populous didn't agree with one or two things.

I did come with a few new suggestions as well. I have arguements for most of them, but they're not fully formed yet. Unfortunately, I've run out of time, so I'd like to suggest them first and then discuss them later on.

1.) I'd like to see more information in the corpora about individual park authorities. We have the basic structure down on a kingdom level, but only a bare acknowledgement of what lower officers can and can't do within their park. Someone else in my park mentioned this to me earlier, and I think it warrents a place in the corpora with all of the other new clarifications.

2.) I would like to suggest a change in how we elect our champions, both on a kingdom and park level. I know that is a sweeping change, but I feel it is necessary. Currently, the champions are elected in a trial by combat, and while the Romantic part of me values that we have a tournament with a practical worth behind it, I cannot help but question the wisdom of this method. The Champion is in charge of weapon checks and running battlegames, which include quests. If they're not in charge of rp, they at least set the pacing on a week to week basis by what games they choose. This means that the qualities that should make a good Champion would be things like safety concerns, weapon/armor design, self-motivation, creativity, and the like. None of those things directly translate on a ditch field, which is essentially what an open tournament is. Some of you might disagree, but self-motivation or creativity in training your wrap shots everyday is different than self-motivation in making sure to call one fun game after another. Meanwhile, equipment can be bought or given, and winning a tournament guaruntees nothing except that you know how to use a boffer. I mean no insult or offense to the people who've won champion before, because most of them seem to have done a fine job, I just feel like a democratic election would be a better choice all around.

3.) I would like a change in how Prime Ministers are seen in the hierarchy. I understand that this may be a little self-serving, since I am a PM myself, but I do not stand to get any real difference regardless. It's no secret that PM is considered one of the most (if not THE most) hectic and time consuming positions. They have to be more organized than the other positions, and people are more likely to get crabby with them should they fail to fulfill their responsibilities (i.e. "Where's my credits/award/title!?). Regardless, they are treated one step below Regent and above Champion. Their exit titles also reflect their lesser status. I would like to see them elevated to at least equal level with the Regent in terms of co-approving policies with the Monarch and exit titles. I've never held a kingdom-level position, so I cannot guess what being the Kingdom-level regent is like, but the position is much less involved at a park level. I don't mean to disrespect anyone who's taken the Regent position either; I think anyone who volunteers for any position is merit-worthy. I just feel like we're underestimating and under appreciating what goes into a position where you're always the bad guy.

4.) I'd like to propose a position for someone who's sole job is to recommend orders and awards. This doesn't grant them the ability to give those awards away, just to make it their responsibility to seek out members of a park who are excelling at one thing or another. We have a lot of members who get overlooked simply because they don't speak up, and while the obvious answer is simply to tell them to speak up, modesty might not allow them to. There are members who have been very stalwart about getting awards to people who deserve them, but many more people get overlooked because most of us just don't have the time to pay attention to everyone. I know this sounds a little inane, and many people have already disregarded this idea as they've read it, but I think it's worth taking a moment to consider. At the very least, a Monarch-approved assistant would work.

There's a few other things, but they can wait. I believe I have already asked for enough impossible things.