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 Post subject: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:53 pm 
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The November Althing will be Nov 26th and 27th in conjunction with Quals. Anyone wishing to sumbit items may post them here, or PM me if you want them submitted privately.

I will be posting a major corpora revision this weekend to go on the agenda. NO agenda items will be accepted after 11:59 pm on Friday Nov. 11th.

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 Post subject: Re: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:56 am 
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I'd like to offer a proposal. My proposal would be to add to the Corpora, under IV.C.2.d.:

Quote:
v. At least twenty five miles distance from any other Amtgard group of Duchy status or higher


and ammend future Contracts to say the same.

Rationale: Each county-sized area should have only one major park. People are free to form any Shire or Barony that suits their purposes.


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 Post subject: Re: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:31 pm 
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Here is the suggested Corpora revision:

Edit with new revision:
http://www.amtgard-eh.com/library/EH%20 ... 011_4_.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:12 pm 
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Elder Vermilion wrote:
Here is the suggested Corpora revision:
http://www.amtgard-eh.com/library/EH%20 ... 011_3_.pdf


Is it too late to make suggestions?

Under rules changes, the authority given to the Monarch and PM is pretty sweeping. I would be happier if it were specified that their actions were limited to clarifications and temporary changes. Specifically, the Monarch + PM should not be able to repeatedly overrule the Althing. Also, although the duration between Althings is specified, there is no specified method of convening an Althing should the officers fail to do so or go MIA. For instance, it's not clear how you would remove a Monarch who stopped showing up altogether.

There are also several places where the monarch plus the "PM or GMR" is specified, and it it is not clear to me whether the Monarch can simply gain the approval of one one or the other, or if something else is intended.

Similarly (although this is an unlikely issue to come up most reigns), the rules for quals specify there are two autocrats, without stating how to resolve the conflict if the stepping down officers do not agree on who should crat each section (war and culturals).

The revision to the Guildmaster of Knights specifies that the elections shall be held in accordance with the CoK bylaws, but it doesn't specify any changes to the voting eligibility of voters (as described previously in the corpora which states all voting eligible members are capable of voting in Kingdom elections). If passed, it seems that this would force the CoK to ammend its bylaws to use the normal definition of voting eligibility. However, it also suggests a somewhat looser wording that suggests the CoK would have unlimited powers to decide who is or isn't eligible to vote. For instance, under that reading, the CoK could open the voting to non-knights, or take the vote from people knighted outside the Kingdom. If the former is intended, that should be made clearer, and if the latter, I think that raises concerns about the continued democracy of the CoK. The Corpora doesn't even specify what authority is needed to revise the CoK's bylaws.


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 Post subject: Re: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:30 am 
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This is a fairly extensive document and these are serious changes not simple revisions…
As such, I think the two weeks prior to kingdom quals is not the proper time to have such a vote. Nor is it enough time to completely explain this re-write of our corpora and its effect on our kingdom as we know it.

I would strongly suggest that this information be distributed throughout the populace.
Give at least three months for them to absorb these concepts and their alternatives and then hold a kingdom althing for discussion and vote afterward.

just sayin'

[smilie=icon_cool.gif]


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 Post subject: Re: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:04 pm 
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In the 3 weeks between now and the Althing, I am more than happy to do a Q&A for people. I will set the 1st one up for Tuesday Nov, 8th at 6:30pm in the EH chat room.

There was a lot of formatting, and yes some major changes, but the majority of the changes were to clean up the document and make it more consistent. I hope to get input on it so we can make any needed changes before this Friday when the agenda is set.

Q&A sessions after this week will be to explain the document and answer questions and concerns with the final product.

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 Post subject: Re: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:40 pm 
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Three Months... Not Three Weeks.

These changes are drastic in some areas and the Populace deserves to hear and talk about what is being done with Their Kingdom... Not just the few that are on the boards or in your back yard.

If this comes to vote as stated...
I vote a Firm "NO"...

Spread the word...

Just Say NO...!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:26 pm 
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As long as we’re re-writing Corpora…

[*]Amend Kingdom Corpora to Elect the Rules Representative through a Populace Vote.
Require Rules Representative to hold regular Althings on any & all rule changes or revisions to be presented to the CoM @ Clan.

Amend Kingdom Corpora to require Monarch abide by the populace vote on any & all rule changes or revisions presented to the CoM @ Clan and to represent such during any vote called.

Questions and concerns…

Eliminating the RGK…?
Eliminating all “rules of play” from Althing Voting?
Changing dates for major events? (WBW)
Policy change for removal of Kingdom Officers?
Increasing attendance requirements for voting status?
Change of attendance requirements for Treasurer?
Rules Rep appointment…?
IMO… see above*
Knight’s Bi-laws…?
*other than attendance requirements?

I’m sure there are more, but we’ll start with those.


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 Post subject: Re: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:54 pm 
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Sir Delphos Darkheart wrote:
As long as we’re re-writing Corpora…

[*]Amend Kingdom Corpora to Elect the Rules Representative through a Populace Vote.
Require Rules Representative to hold regular Althings on any & all rule changes or revisions to be presented to the CoM @ Clan.

Amend Kingdom Corpora to require Monarch abide by the populace vote on any & all rule changes or revisions presented to the CoM @ Clan and to represent such during any vote called.

Questions and concerns…

Eliminating the RGK…?


Yes. The RGK no longer meets and is not necessary. We have been able to get things done in the absence of the RGK for quite some time now.

Quote:
Eliminating all “rules of play” from Althing Voting?


We have not had the authority to change the rules of play since I have played the game. And now that we have agreed to the CoM system of rules changes, it seemed time to finally update the corpora to reflect that.

Quote:
Changing dates for major events? (WBW)


Dates inthe corpora are suggestions. Since WBW has been held the 2nd or 3rd weekend of Oct., the corpora reflects that.

Quote:
Policy change for removal of Kingdom Officers?


Which offices are you referrign to?

Quote:
Increasing attendance requirements for voting status?


Yes. The EH had the most lax standards that we had been able to find. Plus, 6 months is the standard time frame for dues, offices, etc. So it seemed more in line with the rest of the corpora to make it a 6 month time frame. So the change isto play 1 tme per month on average.

Quote:
Change of attendance requirements for Treasurer?


The Treasurer's function is financial. They have no in game authority or duties, so it seemed more fittign to hold them accountable to being at events where the Kigndoms has large dealings with money. Being at the park on a week to week basis has little impact on their duties.

Quote:
Rules Rep appointment…?


The Rules rep has been appointed for quite some time. Previously, it took the Monarch, PM, AND GMR to appoint / dismiss. I felt that was too abuseable sine I was both GMR and Rules Rep for quite some time and could have blocked any chance to remove me.

Quote:
IMO… see above*
Knight’s Bi-laws…?
*other than attendance requirements?

I’m sure there are more, but we’ll start with those.


[smilie=icon_cool.gif]


The CoK has bylaws that change its voting requirements and attendance from the standard voting policies. This corpora reflects what is already in practice.

Good questions, keep them coming.

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"Of course you are Forest. You're like the Mr. Burns of EH." - Finn

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 Post subject: Re: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:55 pm 
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In my reading of this proposal, I have found the following major, substantive, changes. (Please forgive me if I missed something) There are also probably over a hundred minor formatting changes, too many to list, but these are the ones that change or add to the corpora:

*Specify that winners of elections are based on plurality vote. (The person who got the most votes wins)
*Specify that if a high officer misses enough time they MAY be removed from office, not shall, and it must be brought up at an Althing by at least 3 dues paid members in order for a vote to remove to occur.
*Monarch and Regent cannot hold park office.
*GMR is now a full high officer with all the perks. (no dues or fees while in office)
*Specifically mention how a pro-tem replacement for vacated offices happens, and restrict them from giving out kingdom level awards.
*Spell out the GMoK duties. (actually just refers to the COK bylaws)
*Removal of all mentions of the RGK, and subsequent cleanup that change entails, such as specifying that the kingdom pays the tanglewood forest rent and all other charges specified in the lease.
*Weaponmaster is run by the Champion instead of GMR, but mention that the GMR assists with all tournaments.
*The most extensive change is how Parks work, the whole section has been trashed and rewritten. Specific definition of how a park joins the EH, how a park can be kicked out, vastly simplified the confederacy guidelines, changed park size to be by monthly unique signins rather than weekly average attendance, added principality park size to any place park size is mentioned, pro-tem park officers can only give out shire level awards.
*Restrict that titles, masterhoods, and knighthoods cannot be given out to residents in their first 6 months. Also no awards may be given to members of other Kingdoms without their monarch's approval, and not above 5th level at all.
*Removed PM and Champion ability to give awards.
*Added a few titles that we use, but hadn't been added to the Corpora.
*Added a way to remove Knighthoods: 75% vote of the COK, and the agreement of the current Monarch.

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 Post subject: Re: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:21 pm 
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For those who don't know the corpora word for word or have the time to do a side by side comparison. To keep things simple I left out the rewording and formatting changes. Item in quotes are from the current corpora with the change listed under it. Items in green are new add ons , items in red have been removed entirely
Quote:
I Introduction
A. Amtgard
1. Amtgard is a vehicle of recreation



A. Amtgard
1. Amtgard is a not-for-profit, free, non-sectarian group dedicated to the recreation of medieval and fantasy genres

Quote:
C. The Kingdom of the Emerald Hills (A/K/A EH or Kingdom)
1. Amtgard is played under the auspices of Amtgard, Kingdom of the Emerald Hills, Inc. in accordance with the Amtgard Rulebook, Monster Manual, this document, and the terms of the Official Park Agreement/Contract


1. Amtgard is played under the auspices of Amtgard, Kingdom of the Emerald Hills, Inc. in accordance with the Amtgard Rulebook, this document, and the terms of the Official Park Agreement/Contract

Quote:
Kingdom Residency
B. To be considered an active resident of the Emerald Hills one must:
1. Occasionally participate in the functions of the Kingdom of the Emerald Hills or its subgroups
a. 'Occasionally' is defined as at least 4 (four) times in the 7 (seven) months immediately prior to the 2 (two) weeks before the end date of a vote



1. Have been a resident for the preceding 6 month period.
2. Occasionally participate in the functions of the Kingdom of the Emerald Hills or its subgroups a 'Occasionally' is defined as at least 6 (six) times in the 6 (six) months immediately prior to the 2 (two) weeks before the end date of a vote

D. Althings
3. Only Emerald Hills Dues Paid members may vote in any Althing
4. Unless otherwise specified, all Althing items will be decided by plurality vote


5. The Althing may consist of the following:
a. Discussion and enactment of rule changes
d Removing Club Officers from their office

Quote:
F. Duties and Policies of the Treasury
3. Together, the Monarch and Treasurer may budget and approve expenditures for the operation of the kingdom. This includes expenses for:
a. Midreign and Coronation - The Kingdom shall not expend an amount for an event Greater than the average of the Kingdom's portion of the gate revenue for the preceding three events of the same type, without prior approval at Althing. Event of the same type refers to: Spring Midreign; Summer Coronation; Fall Midreign; Winter Coronation as distinct types.
b. World Banner Wars - The Kingdom shall not expend an amount for World Banner Wars greater than the average of the Kingdom's portion of the gate revenue for the preceding three World Banner Wars for valid receipts submitted. Only the Authority of an Althing shall reimburse any receipts in excess of that amount.



F. Duties and Policies of the Treasury
2. Together, the Monarch and Treasurer may budget and approve expenditures for the operation of the kingdom. This includes expenses for:
a. Midreign and Coronation - The Kingdom shall not expend an amount for an event greater than 50% of the average of the Kingdom's revenue for the preceding three vents of the same type, without prior approval at Althing. Event of the same type refers to: Spring Midreign; Summer Coronation; Fall Midreign; Winter Coronation as distinct types
b. World Banner Wars - The Kingdom shall not expend an amount for World Banner Wars greater than 75% of the average of the Kingdom's revenue for the preceding three World Banner Wars for valid receipts submitted. Only the Authority of an Althing shall reimburse any receipts in excess of that amount

Quote:
VI Club High Offices
B. Monarch (AKA King/Queen/Emperor/Empress)
11. Could receive the title of Duke/Duchess at the end of his/her term
12. Shall descend from this office if he/she misses more than four weeks in a row or twelve weeks total (Exception - special situations will be taken into consideration by populace vote)



11. Could receive the title of Duke/Duchess at the end of his/her term or Grand-Duke/ Grand-Duchess if he/she already has a Duke/Duchess title
12. May be removed from this office if he/she misses more than four weeks in a row or twelve weeks total. Removal may be initiated for vote at the next Althing by the request of any 3 dues paid members without the need for a petition
13. May not hold any park level office during his/her term

Quote:
C. Regent (AKA Consort)
8. Is responsible for the next Crown Coronation feast
12. Shall descend from this office if he/she misses more than six weeks in a row or twelve weeks total (Exception - special situations will be taken into consideration by populace vote)



8. Is responsible for the Midreign feast, and the next Coronation feast
11. May be removed from this office if he/she misses more than four weeks in a row or twelve weeks total. Removal may be initiated for vote at the next Althing by the request of any 3 dues paid members without the need for a petition
12. May not hold any park level office during his/her term

Quote:
D. Prime Minister of Records (PM)

5. Is responsible for the following aspects of the club:
a. Providing rulebooks and newsletters to EH Residents
b. Must keep records of attendance and active members
c. Must collect copies of sign-in sheets from all EH Subgroups.
6. Shall descend from this office if he/she misses more than six weeks in a row or twelve weeks total (Exception - special situations will be taken into consideration by populace vote)


7. May bestow the following orders: Crimson, and Lion

4. Is responsible for the following aspects of the club:
a. Providing Rulebooks and Corporas to EH dues paid members upon request (no more than 1 time per 6 months)
b. Must keep waivers, records of attendance, and list of active members
c. Must collect copies of sign-in sheets and waivers from all EH Subgroups.
d. Is responsible for keeping a list of awards, titles, and knighthoods issued by the
Monarch and Regent during the reign
6. May be removed from this office if he/she misses more than four weeks in a row or twelve weeks total. Removal may be initiated for vote at the next Althing by the request of any 3 dues paid members without the need for a petition


Quote:
A. Prime Minister of Treasury (“Treasurer” or TR)
2. Has an automatic seat on the BOD and RGK for the duration of his/her term
5. Could receive the title of Baron/Baroness at the end of his/her term
6. Shall descend from this office if he/she misses more than six weeks in a row or twelve weeks total (Exception - special situations will be taken into consideration by populace vote)


2. Has an automatic seat on the BOD for the duration of his/her term
5. Could receive the title of Count/Countess at the end of his/her term
6. Shall oversee the Autocrat for gate at any event hosted by the EH
7. May be removed from this office if he/she misses more than one Kingdom level event during their term. Removal may be initiated for vote at the next Althing by the request of any 3 dues paid members without the need for a petition

Quote:
A. Champion

11. Shall descend from this office if he/she misses more than six weeks in a row or twelve weeks total (Exception - special situations will be taken into consideration by populace vote)


6. May bestow the following orders: Gladius, and Griffin
8. Is responsible for the Weaponmaster Tournament
11. May be removed from this office if he/she misses more than four weeks in a row or twelve weeks total. Removal may be initiated for vote at the next Althing by the request of any 3 dues paid members without the need for a petition

Quote:
B. Guildmaster of Reeves (GMR)
2. Works with the Monarch and Prime Minister to ensure the rules are applied accurately, fairly, and honestly


1. Must be 18 years or older
3. Is not required to pay any event fees or dues during his/her term
4. Works with the Monarch and Champion to ensure the rules are applied accurately, fairly, and honestly

H. Vacated and Pro-Tem Positions (section added)
1. If a high officer position (other than Monarch) becomes vacated, or no one qualifies for the position, a Pro-Tem replacement may be appointed through the end of the term for which the position was elected by joint agreement of the sitting Monarch, and either the PM or GMR
2. Pro-Tem officers may only award orders at the level of the highest subgroup in the EH


Quote:
A. Board of Directors (BOD)
1. There are seven seats on the BOD
c. Five seats are filled via open ballot for one-year terms. The annual terms shall be staggered so that there are always at least two members that were active during the preceding six months


2. Must be Dues Paid Members
3. There are seven seats on the BOD
c Five seats are filled via open ballot for one-year terms. The annual terms shall be staggered so that there are always at least two members that were active during the preceding six months. If a BOD member holding an open ballot seat becomes Monarch or Treasurer, then he/she must vacate their open ballot seat
d If a BOD seat is vacated, an election will be held at the next election or Althing to fill the seat for the remainder of the term

Quote:
C. Interkingdom Rules Representative
2. The Interkingdom Rules Representative is appointed and dismissed by a joint decision of the Monarch, PM, and GMR.


2. The Interkingdom Rules Representative is appointed and dismissed by joint
agreement of the Monarch, and either the PM or GMR

F. Guildmaster of Knights (section added)
1. Must meet the standards set forth in the Circle of Knights’ (COK) Bylaws
2. Shall be elected by the members of the Knights’ Circle as per the COK bylaws
3. Is responsible for all duties listed in the COK Bylaws
4. May be removed by 75% vote of voting eligible COK Members


Quote:
VII Kingdom Events
A. Crown Qualifications (AKA Crown Quals)
2. Sponsors: the two highest ranking club officers not running for high office (one to run war events, one to run cultural events)
4. Crown Contestants are required enter a minimum of 10 (ten) Crown Qualification cultural and war events (each). In addition, to successfully qualify, a contestant's cultural entries must average at least a 3 (three) on a 5 (five) point scale. Only the contestant's highest 2 (two) entries in a category may be figured into this average



A. Crown Qualification Tournament (AKA Crown Quals)
2. Autocrats: the two highest ranking club officers not running for high office (one to run war events, one to run cultural events)
4. Crown Election Contenders are required to enter a minimum of 10 (ten) war events and 10 (ten) cultural subcategories. In addition, to successfully qualify, a contender's cultural entries must average at least a 3 (three) on a 5 (five) point scale. Only the contender's highest 2 (two) entries in a subcategory may be figured into this average

Quote:
A. Weaponmaster Tournament
3. Sponsor: Guildmaster of Reeves


3. Autocrat: Champion


J. Midreign Feast (section added)
1. In conjunction with Midreign
2. Autocrat: Regent


Quote:
A. World Banner Wars
2. Suggested date Held: The second full weekend of October.
3. Sponsor: As selected by the Monarch and PM. Said selection is to occur at least 6 (six) months prior to the event


2. Suggested date Held: The second or third weekend of October
3. Autocrat: As selected by the Monarch and Treasurer. Said selection is to occur at least 6 (six) months prior to the event

Quote:
IV Subgroup (Park) Guidelines
A. When formed, Emerald Hills’ subgroups acknowledge their responsibility to operate in a manner consistent with this document. To be an EH subgroup a park shall:
1. Not be a subgroup of any non-EH group
2. Have signed a petition to join and/or an official contract
a. Approval of any subgroup contract with EH will be by majority vote of the EH Board of Directors (BOD)
b. Should a subgroup not follow the requirements set forth in this section, the EH BOD can terminate the contract by majority vote.


A. To be an EH subgroup a park shall:
1. Not be a subgroup of any non-EH group
2. Have completed the requirements in the Petitioning Park Agreement
3. Have signed an official contract with the EH Monarch
a Approval of any subgroup contract with EH will be by majority vote of the EH
Board of Directors (BOD)
b The EH BOD can terminate the contract by majority vote if:
i The EH Monarch or PM brings evidence to the BOD that the contract has
been violated
ii Such evidence is found by the BOD to show that a violation has occurred


D. Guidelines for all subgroups in relation to Awards
6. Pro-tem subgroup officers may only give awards up to level 3 without prior approval of the Kingdom Monarch (added)

F. Subgroup Size Guidelines
1. Subgroup size is calculated by unique sign-ins per month of residents at least 8 years old who claim the given subgroup.

3. Subgroups may be demoted once per Reign by:
a Failing to maintain the minimum number of players required for its status for 6 of the 12 preceding months or
b Failing to comply with other current contractual obligations including changes to the corpora or joint agreements of the Monarch, and either the PM or GMR


XI Titles, Orders, Honors and Awards
A. No title, masterhood, or knighthood may be awarded to a player unless he/she has been a resident for the preceding 6 months. No award may be given to nonresidents unless approved by that Kingdom’s Monarch, and the award must be 5th level or below

A. Titles of Nobility, Lesser Titles of Honor (Equivalents)
1. Grand-Duke/Duchess (Everlastian) Suggested criteria: serve as Monarch two or more times
2. Arch-Duke/Duchess (Forestonian) Suggested criteria: serve as Monarch and one other high office.

9. Master (none) Suggested criteria discretion of the Monarch (service to the club). Also awarded for six months service as Champion of a Duchy, PM of a Barony, or Regent of a Shire.

Quote:
A. Knighthood
1. If there is any dispute about a Knighthood, a formal complaint and/or petition must be submitted to the Monarch and Prime Minister


H. Knighthood
4. If there is any dispute about a Knighthood, a formal complaint and/or petition must be submitted to the Monarch and Prime Minister and GMK
5. A Knighthood may be removed by 75% vote of the voting eligible COK members and the current Monarch.
a. Removal of a Knighthood does NOT remove any other awards or Masterhoods
from the individual
b. The individual is still qualified for Knighthood and may earn a Knighthood via the same method as any other player


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 Post subject: Re: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Forest Evergreen wrote:
We have not had the authority to change the rules of play since I have played the game. And now that we have agreed to the CoM system of rules changes, it seemed time to finally update the corpora to reflect that.


Then it should remain as it was, except with a notice that we have agreed to the CoM system of change.

Quote:
Quote:
Increasing attendance requirements for voting status?


Yes. The EH had the most lax standards that we had been able to find. Plus, 6 months is the standard time frame for dues, offices, etc. So it seemed more in line with the rest of the corpora to make it a 6 month time frame. So the change isto play 1 tme per month on average.


You say lax, I say reasonable. What exactly is the purpose of tightening this requirement other than to punish people with weekend jobs?

Quote:
Quote:
Change of attendance requirements for Treasurer?


The Treasurer's function is financial. They have no in game authority or duties, so it seemed more fittign to hold them accountable to being at events where the Kigndoms has large dealings with money. Being at the park on a week to week basis has little impact on their duties.


Unless you need to talk to them.

Quote:
The CoK has bylaws that change its voting requirements and attendance from the standard voting policies. This corpora reflects what is already in practice.


That may be the intention, but this change does not do that. The first problem is that it introduces an ambiguity I already pointed out. The second is that it expands the CoK's authority to include or exclude any person they feel like, whereas previously, all knights would automatically be eligible to vote provided they met standards for activity.

In my view, the CoK should NOT have the ability to set its own voting requirements. It's supposed to be an advisory body of the Kingdom, not some special club.
Elder Vermilion wrote:
In my reading of this proposal, I have found the following major, substantive, changes. (Please forgive me if I missed something) There are also probably over a hundred minor formatting changes, too many to list, but these are the ones that change or add to the corpora:

*The most extensive change is how Parks work, the whole section has been trashed and rewritten. Specific definition of how a park joins the EH, how a park can be kicked out, vastly simplified the confederacy guidelines, changed park size to be by monthly unique signins rather than weekly average attendance, added principality park size to any place park size is mentioned, pro-tem park officers can only give out shire level awards.


Notably, the PM and Monarch are now gatekeepers of any request to terminate a park’s contract. No other BOD member can intervene without them. That’s interesting.

Confederacies require three subgroups, for some reason, meaning that there is no middle ground between Large park + satellites and roving crown parks. The attendance requirements make no sense; unique sign-ins are taken from only the largest group, rather than a total.

As written, someone who attends more than one park does not count as attendance for any of them, since they no longer have a unique sign-in.
Quote:
*Restrict that titles, masterhoods, and knighthoods cannot be given out to residents in their first 6 months. Also no awards may be given to members of other Kingdoms without their monarch's approval, and not above 5th level at all.

I don’t understand the point of this at all. Why do we hate newbies and immigrants?

So, in summary, these revisions are in need of some revisions. I think it would be a mistakes to vote for these changes as-is. At the very least, even if you agreed in spirit with all the changes, substantial improvements in the text are needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:10 pm 
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Darkangel wrote:
Forest Evergreen wrote:
We have not had the authority to change the rules of play since I have played the game. And now that we have agreed to the CoM system of rules changes, it seemed time to finally update the corpora to reflect that.


Then it should remain as it was, except with a notice that we have agreed to the CoM system of change.

I disagree. The corpora currently says that the Monarch and PM can change rules in the rulebook. They can't. We changed the corpora to reflect that.

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Increasing attendance requirements for voting status?


Yes. The EH had the most lax standards that we had been able to find. Plus, 6 months is the standard time frame for dues, offices, etc. So it seemed more in line with the rest of the corpora to make it a 6 month time frame. So the change isto play 1 tme per month on average.


You say lax, I say reasonable. What exactly is the purpose of tightening this requirement other than to punish people with weekend jobs?


By that argument, ANY standard of attendance punishes people who work weekends. It has been a standard for a long time that to vote, a player should be in attendance at Amtgard. I don't see how 1 time per month is overly demanding.

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Change of attendance requirements for Treasurer?


The Treasurer's function is financial. They have no in game authority or duties, so it seemed more fittign to hold them accountable to being at events where the Kigndoms has large dealings with money. Being at the park on a week to week basis has little impact on their duties.


Unless you need to talk to them.


There are phone numbers and e-mail addresses availible. Have you had difficulty in contacting the Treasurer in the past?
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The CoK has bylaws that change its voting requirements and attendance from the standard voting policies. This corpora reflects what is already in practice.


That may be the intention, but this change does not do that. The first problem is that it introduces an ambiguity I already pointed out. The second is that it expands the CoK's authority to include or exclude any person they feel like, whereas previously, all knights would automatically be eligible to vote provided they met standards for activity.

In my view, the CoK should NOT have the ability to set its own voting requirements. It's supposed to be an advisory body of the Kingdom, not some special club.

I know you have issues with how the CoK runs. But the Corpora reflects what is already in practice. If you would liek to change the way the CoK runs, you can propse it to the members and see if they agree.
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Elder Vermilion wrote:
In my reading of this proposal, I have found the following major, substantive, changes. (Please forgive me if I missed something) There are also probably over a hundred minor formatting changes, too many to list, but these are the ones that change or add to the corpora:

*The most extensive change is how Parks work, the whole section has been trashed and rewritten. Specific definition of how a park joins the EH, how a park can be kicked out, vastly simplified the confederacy guidelines, changed park size to be by monthly unique signins rather than weekly average attendance, added principality park size to any place park size is mentioned, pro-tem park officers can only give out shire level awards.


Notably, the PM and Monarch are now gatekeepers of any request to terminate a park’s contract. No other BOD member can intervene without them. That’s interesting.

Confederacies require three subgroups, for some reason, meaning that there is no middle ground between Large park + satellites and roving crown parks. The attendance requirements make no sense; unique sign-ins are taken from only the largest group, rather than a total.

As written, someone who attends more than one park does not count as attendance for any of them, since they no longer have a unique sign-in.
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*Restrict that titles, masterhoods, and knighthoods cannot be given out to residents in their first 6 months. Also no awards may be given to members of other Kingdoms without their monarch's approval, and not above 5th level at all.

I don’t understand the point of this at all. Why do we hate newbies and immigrants?

So, in summary, these revisions are in need of some revisions. I think it would be a mistakes to vote for these changes as-is. At the very least, even if you agreed in spirit with all the changes, substantial improvements in the text are needed.

You are misunderstanding the unique sign ins. The BLBOD, will not look at any group for Kingdom status unless they can show 12 months (minimum) of 75 unique sign ins per month at 1 location. A unique sign in does not mean you played only at that park for the month. It means the number of different players who signed in at any time in that month.

And I am not sure where you see hatred for anyone. There have been issues in other lands where a player moved, and within a month was given a Knighthood, Masterhood, etc. I see this as an improper situations and a "good ol' boy" thing. Can you think of a situation where a player who just moved here 2 months ago SHOULD get an EH Knighhood and it would be wrong to wait 4 more months? You can't hold office until you have lived here 6 months either. I don't see why either of those is unfair.

_________________
Forest Evergreen

Puppet Master of the EH

"Of course you are Forest. You're like the Mr. Burns of EH." - Finn

(insert titles and awards here)


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 Post subject: Re: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:24 pm
Posts: 405
Our Corpora does not reflect the current status regarding several things, that much is certainly obvious. What is less clear, is how this all came about. I, for one, have seen the changes occur over the years. I have watched the decisions concerning rule changes and re-writes systematically taken away from the actual people in the kingdom.

Now, with version 8.0 looming on the horizon, a version that from what I have seen no longer resembles what I know as Amtgard, we are given three weeks notice and one week prep time before a Major Althing Vote to change our corpora and cement the current status quo into law. Three weeks time, during which those who may be seeking high offices need to devote to quals projects and support gathering, not to mention a major mundane holiday… A busy time, to say the least.

I must protest…!!!
But I’m sure you’ve all heard that before.

With the actual Rules taken out of the hands of the voting, playing populace and placed into the hands of a few people, who were never chosen by populace vote, nor required to actually reflect the will of the people and allowed to re-write the Rules of Play as they see fit… I call Bullshit on all of it!

It has been obvious to some, that Amtgard has been completely taken away from the actual players and given to a selected few and we are left with whatever those select few decide. This Althing is just another step in the process.

I see little difference between this Amtgard and the Amtgard of Aramithiris & his cronies.
From E-sam…
The current roster for the committee:
Brennon - Chair, Emerald Hills
Roger - Neverwinter
Chekers - Goldenvale
Phocion - Dragonspine
Kord - Iron Mountains

When it’s all said & done…
We have no one to blame but ourselves.
We can stand together against the tide or we can let those five or six people decide how we are going to play Amtgard in the future.
We can let them dictate exactly how The Emerald Hills will play… Or Not.

I say again…
Items to put to a Populace Vote at this Althing…

Amend Kingdom Corpora to Elect the Rules Representative through a Populace Vote.
Require Rules Representative to hold regular Althings on any & all rule changes or revisions to be presented to the CoM @ Clan.

Amend Kingdom Corpora to require Monarch abide by the populace vote on any & all rule changes or revisions presented to the CoM @ Clan and to represent such during any vote called.

This is the only way to have a True Representative Government.
Anything else is Bullshit!

You can spew all you want about elected monarchs having a vote in the CoM…
But I know for a fact that the vote they cast seldom reflects any vote brought to the populace and in some cases it completely disregards the actual majority opinion of the Emerald Hills.

This Kingdom was founded by The Rebels from The Free Hills.
The Key word here…”free”.
Free from having someone else tell us what we could do and what we could Not do.
I will Vote No on this “Revised” Corpora.
As always, I will continue to stand against the tide…
Whether I be relevant or Not.

[smilie=icon_cool.gif]

Remember:
There's no crying in Amtgard...
unless they turn off the ditch-lights! [smilie=icon_wink.gif]

And:
Don't forget to wear your Garb! [smilie=icon_redface.gif]


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 Post subject: Re: Althing Submissions
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:08 pm 
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Forest Evergreen wrote:
By that argument, ANY standard of attendance punishes people who work weekends. It has been a standard for a long time that to vote, a player should be in attendance at Amtgard. I don't see how 1 time per month is overly demanding.


You are saying that someone could take off work to attend Midreign, Coronation, Weaponmaster, and WBW and still be ineligible to vote. I don't really have more to add to that other than to say I don't agree with it.

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In my view, the CoK should NOT have the ability to set its own voting requirements. It's supposed to be an advisory body of the Kingdom, not some special club.


I know you have issues with how the CoK runs. But the Corpora reflects what is already in practice. If you would liek to change the way the CoK runs, you can propse it to the members and see if they agree.


No, it does not reflect what is in practice. It gives the CoK the power to decide who is in the Circle. Previously, the Circle was defined under "Guilds," in which every participant of a "class" was specificied to be a member. This is a huge change to the underpinnings of the CoK and it's important to understand what is being proposed here. The CoK is being untethered from any responsibility to the Kingdom as to whom it considers a knight, an active knight, or whether indeed knighthood will be a requirement of the CoK at all.

I have a real problem with changing the Corpora such that it no longer says the CoK is composed of knights!

Furthermore, I think you should consider carefully the implications of leaving ambiguous wording in place as to whether the CoK bylaws supercede the requirements for active participation of the Corpora. Should someone be elected CoK who does not agree with you about how ironclad and unambiguously this passage is written, there may be a real practical issue when the GMK suddenly announces that parts of the CoK eligibility rules are against the Corpora. That is a real thing that could happen.


Elder Vermilion wrote:
In my reading of this proposal, I have found the following major, substantive, changes. (Please forgive me if I missed something) There are also probably over a hundred minor formatting changes, too many to list, but these are the ones that change or add to the corpora:

*The most extensive change is how Parks work, the whole section has been trashed and rewritten. Specific definition of how a park joins the EH, how a park can be kicked out, vastly simplified the confederacy guidelines, changed park size to be by monthly unique signins rather than weekly average attendance, added principality park size to any place park size is mentioned, pro-tem park officers can only give out shire level awards.


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So, in summary, these revisions are in need of some revisions. I think it would be a mistakes to vote for these changes as-is. At the very least, even if you agreed in spirit with all the changes, substantial improvements in the text are needed.


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You are misunderstanding the unique sign ins. The BLBOD, will not look at any group for Kingdom status unless they can show 12 months (minimum) of 75 unique sign ins per month at 1 location. A unique sign in does not mean you played only at that park for the month. It means the number of different players who signed in at any time in that month.


No, I am not misunderstanding. Unique sign-ins means there is only one. If I sign in at Park A and again at Park B, neither sign-in is unique. That's plain and simple English. The problem is that you don't understand what the proposed changes say. You need to address this issue before putting forward a proposal that says something other than what you think it does. I am trying to help you avoid a serious mistake.

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And I am not sure where you see hatred for anyone. There have been issues in other lands where a player moved, and within a month was given a Knighthood, Masterhood, etc. I see this as an improper situations and a "good ol' boy" thing. Can you think of a situation where a player who just moved here 2 months ago SHOULD get an EH Knighhood and it would be wrong to wait 4 more months? You can't hold office until you have lived here 6 months either. I don't see why either of those is unfair.


Someone could serve multiple terms in high office here, move before they get knighted (that part should be pretty easy), spend one reign in another kingdom, and then move back. And they still can't be knighted for Crown.

Meanwhile, someone could still rack up 7 orders of the whatever in an outlying Duchy, without any general kingdom oversight, and then when one of their friends in office, get a Masterhood within one reign.

Someone could move here, be fully qualified for a Masterhood, dutifully wait six months, and then have a Monarch step up who ignores them or doesn't like them, turning it into a 12 month wait, or an 18 month one... Hopefully, they won't have to move again.

You mentioned recently you were unhappy with Clio's Duke title from the CK. Does this have something to do with that?

If you want to deal with the "good ol' boy" situation, stop treating the CoK under the Corpora like it's special. Normalize the CoK requirements to being a knight and an active resident of the Kingdom.

Help me understand how this requirement helps the Monarch rather than tying their hands. They can already be an awful Monarch by not awarding things. This won't help with that. This change will help somewhat with Monarchs being awful by awarding things, in certain rare cases, but then, it also forces them to be awful in certain rare cases, as well.

Honestly, I'm not very interested in this and other issues of policy change in this revision, considering how many core issues are completely broken as it is. Why is such a sweeping revision being sprung on us suddenly? Why are such huge changes being made not only without time for discussion, but without time to even address critical problems with the wording of various items?


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