The Kingdom of the Emerald Hills

Rules don't make good, or bad, role playing. After decades of playing dozens of table top rpg's I finally realized there was no perfect game system. My favorite games were not the ones with the most logical or well balanced rule set. They were the ones with great stories and good friends. When I have had the most fun in quests and battle games is when there was a story behind the action. The worst games were not bad because my class was broken, but because the quest/story was badly organized or executed.

For a second random thought, we have a PHB (the rulebook) and a MM (the dor un avathar). I'd like to see a DMG with ideas on how to construct quests and battle games. Has anyone done anything like this?

Just some notes:

1.) J.W. quit Amtgard in 2004 after a dispute with Bolt and quit working on 6.5. He was head of the committee at that time. Not sure why he set out to kill his own Cult of Personality.

2.) More has been done to clarify and balance classes for battlegames than anythign else.

3.) A lot of the "old guard" that are still active are helpping to give input into the rulebook, not sure why they are trying to destroy themselves.

4.) It IS about power. It is about not allowing all the power to rest in one group, but to make sure that the power over the rulebook and the future of the game is distributed to all the Kingdoms.

:)

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Forest Evergreen

(insert titles and awards here)

[quote="Nevron"] First off, It's Touch Of Death, not slap of death or even grapple of death. What part of the word Touch is so hard to understand?

I don't have a problem understanding it. I've never seen a major injury related to it, either. However, I have seen some stuff worthy of America's Funniest, in the sense that people experiencing pain and awkardness can be funny for onlookers. Probably the most entertaining ToDs I can think of are the occasional buttgrabs, aka Sexual Harassment of Death, and that's where the no-grappling rule creates a zone of hypocrisy. If we're hands-off, I really fill we should stay hands-off.

Honestly, Nevron, in all the years I've known you, I've see you use ToD in a straight-up fight maybe twice. Every other time you just came up on somebody, and you could just as easily have stabbed them, I think. It certainly lacks something compared to Improved Shield or archery. How often does an AP or an assassin walk around with an empty hand, anyway?

Back in the day, I got drafted to play a mummy multiple times, and while it was kind of fun trying to sneak in that deadly tap, I definitely saw the potential for unfriendly misunderstandings.

Oh... so playing a Mummy a few times while trying to sneak up on players so you can give them a friendly tap of death is suppose to give others the idea that you know what your talking about when it comes to the Assassin class and the ToD? Hate to burst your little bubble but that don't even come close. I know your trying to help but your previous statement that the ToD was just a booby prize kinda made you look even worse than you do normally.

It really doesn't matter how many times you can recall me using a ToD in a battlegame. Its not like your on the field every time I am. Hell, your not even at a park as much as I am. So your personal experience on my use of the ability (or when I shouldn't use it) is about as worthless as you are at defending the Crown.

So again I say. Shut the hell up about stuff you don't know. You should instead be looking into ways to keep all the Assassins out there from showing you just how wrong you are.

On that note... here is a suggestion to help you accomplish that goal.

Stay home.



.

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Talk less..... say more.

That is exactly what I am talking about when I say that people with little or no experience playing specific classes should not be allowed to have such a major impact over that class or the abilities associated with that class.

It is this situation that brought us a set of rules where a Healer can purchase more ToDs than an Assassin or Anti-paladin is allowed. In the time of 6.0 and earlier versions of Amtgard, a 6th level Assassin could take ToD once per life. In 7.0 it was reduced to once per Game. The reasons given, were a combination of the no-touch rule and the guy who re-wrote the class (an *Non-sin) decided that the abilitiy wasn't utilized enough and wouldn't be missed. An example of this would certainly be DA playing Mummy making him an expert on using ToD.

There are a LOT more...
Want a List...???

As far as the Old Guard being left out of the final version of 7.0 that came out...
First off... As a Master Assassin with over 10 years of playing experience, I was flat out told that my imput wasn't require or requsted. And I'm not the only old timer that was told to shut up back then.

The fact is, that the majority of the commitee was, for all practical purpses, cut out of the final decisions and a few individuals took over. Many of the new rules were NEVER play tested. A LOT of shit happened back then that the newer players have never been made aware of and it just floors me whenever I read or hear the candy coated versions of how the new rules came about.

Every time the CoM meets to change the rules, I cringe...!!!
How are they going to F-UP my game this time.
This issue of Touch of Death has come up before, but it goes hand in hand with the other abilities that have been taken or changed since 7.0 came into being...
All in the name of "balance"...
That must be why the Healer can purchase more ToDs than a Sin.
Or why a Monk can stealth ToD (sanctuary) and a Sin can't.
Or why a Paladin can resurrect but an AP can only re-animate for a 200 count.
*I fought my ass off just to get that much back*

With regards to Forest's remarkable insight as to why JW left Amtgard...
All I can say is... WOW, isn't he remarkable!
Hey Forest...
What am I thinking Now...???

I think we should all realize some things on this subject. Some of you may feel the ToD is a pointless and not regularly used ability. That is your right to have that opinion. What you guys need to realize and respect is some people in this game have gone through great length and great passion making certain classes a part of their persona in turn a part of themselves. By criticizing any classes abilities is not only an attack on a class itself but on the people who have made that class apart of them. The problem is not with the abilities itself the problem lies with some (note I said some not all) that tend to take things to far. That problem has appeared in more places of the game then just the ToD. While all opinions matter when it comes to the changes of the rules, it is especially beneficial to the game to take it into account the opinion of those that have played the class for several years and has embraced it as part of their persona. With time comes wisdom in all

This view of Amtgard is another reason I cringe every other summer!

When I say that the entire spirit of Amtgard has been and continues to be transformed into a "sport", this attitude about "body contact" and comparisons to organized team sports like soccer and basketball which are exclusively played on a field or grid, are some of the things I am talking about. This perception of Amtgard seems to me to be completely foreign to what had been the traditional practices of our particular "Live Action Foam Padded Combat Roleplay Group".

Believe it or not...
Once upon a time, Amtgard was indeed a somewhat simulation of actual combat.
People fell down on the ground when they were killed in battle, fighters pushed against actual shield walls and climed over the dead to face each other on a stone bridge no more than 10 feet wide. Our swords had weight somewhat in line with actual swords and when you were hit... you knew it!

Then came the weapons evolution into the pixie sticks of today, yet the armor construction requirements never changed. So, we have these light-ass swords tapping on full armor and the hulk in plate mail can't feel a thing and no one falls down when they die.

Now somebody wants Amtgard to become a "sport" where just bumping into another player will cost you a Life...???

"Oh, you'd better stay 3 to 5 feet away from me or I'll call a Foul !!!"

Give me a BREAK...!!!

IMO... this is just one more example of how we've lost our true game!

No shades of gray for this person.
How did we go from Touch of Death and shield pressing to wrist locks forcing someone to the ground, tackling, kicking, head stomping and Mix Martial Arts...
from foam padded PVC to solid wooden rods or live steel...???
That sure sounds like an extremist argument to Me!

I have played Amtgard almost continuously since 1985 and I have seen many injuries in and out of battle. I have seen cracked ribs, broken noses, dislocated jaws and strained/sprained wrists and ankles galore. I have seen head injuries from accidents not involving weapons, as well as someone who received a lower orbital fracture from a perfectly legal arrow. I have seen and heard about many an injury in my 25 years, but I have NEVER seen a situation which would reflect an atmosphere such as this person seems to be so concerned about.

Even the hardest "Jugging" matches I have seen would not compare to gladiatorial school or basic training for a samurai or any medieval warrior/soldier, all of which engaged in ture life-taking activities. Not even the SCA heavy or light weapon combat go to that extreme!

IMO... If this person is so concerned about too much "body contact" in Amtgard, then perhaps they are playing the wrong game and should take up Golf.
On the other hand... If this person wants More physical contact, maybe they should joined the armed services or jump on the MMA circuit.

That's My extremist argument...!!!

In life things change. Nothing will ever stay "the good ol' day" when it first started. Things change, get over it. Sure it may not be what you "used" to play, but so what? If you like playing the game then play it, if not as Nevron stated earlier Stay Home.

(Let's see how many flamming comments I can get)

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Head of The Shadow Chorus
Fuu Bunny of The Dreadmoor Fey Bunnies
Member of The Turtle Clan of Riverstone
Member of The House of Singollo
Sky Pirate of Gaslight Amtgard

I disagree. I think personalizing these mistakes is a big mistake. It's not about attacking people, it's about trying to talk about things in an reasonable fashion. The classes as written aren't perfect. What does ToD have to do with being a Healer, at all?

With all due respect, Nevron, Delphos, I am less concerned with how Assassins feel about ToD, than I am with how people feel about getting touched by Assassins. I am sure something equally cool could be devised that wouldn't encourage Assassins to goose you, or to slap you on the wrist, or to get their fingers jammed on bamboo. And Nevron, while I certainly respect your experience, I feel I must remind you that at this point, I've been playing for nearly seventeen years. Half my life. The only thing I don't much about at this point is 7.5.

"In life things change." From a seventeen year old. I love it.
(okay, there's as close to a flaming comment as I give, feel better?)

Amtgard follows a voting based governing model for it's rules now. In as such it is the responsibility, not just the right, of those within it's sphere of influence to speak and vote on what they believe to be right or wrong for it, and that starts at local levels. We're just waiting to hit our six months for established residency at our park to pay our dues and get back in on the voting because we firmly believe in the "Didn't vote? Don't bitch." philosophy.

That aside, I agree that, in my opinion, the current pursuit of the no touch rules that seems to be another excuse to try to "sportify" a game of dress up and make believe is ludicrous.
Extremes suck.

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Orchid Noir
Mistress of House Battlecraze

I'm not a sportifier.

Just to clarify, this year's rulebook is version 7.7, not 7.6. Rulebook 7.6 was last year's rulebook, although an errata sheet was never published. There will be clarifications the next three years until 2014 when the vote to pass or fail 8.0 comes up.

Wow I took a small fire and threw f'n napalm on it. Okay I agree Faelyn things do change that would be why there were six differant versions of the rules before the current version. It's not the change itself that some people have a problem with, it's some of the changes, the frequency of those changes, and for some how those changes have come about that is so controversial. Darkangel no the game is not perfect, and newsflash it never will be. I don't know if everyone forgot this or if playing this game has somehow caused some of us to lose touch with reality and forget, but WE ARE HUMANS!!! Therefore we are not perfect, and nothing we create is either. I understand the whole mentallity of striving for perfection as well, but again I state if it ain't broke leave it the flip alone! That again has been my humble opinion by your Duke of Eagleshire, Fionnigan Hellblazer. We now return you to your previously scheduled debate already in progress.

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Where is the horse gone? where the rider?
Where the giver of treasure?
Where are the seats at the feast?
Where are the revels in the hall?
Author Unknown

This is the strangest life I've ever known.
The Doors Waiting for the Sun

Vultus ut vestri frons
General Fionnigan Hellblazer Supreme Field Commander of Gryphon's Rage F.D.V.

Hey...
Does anyone know who this aersixb9 is...???
Personally, I don't think this person has even played Amtgard.
So, aersixb9... Who are You...???
Where do you play? How long have you played?
Have you ever had your wrist locked and your face pushed into the ground?
Is this a frequent problem for you...???

Just in case you read and already forgot what I wrote, I'll repeat myself...

In 25 years of playing Amtgard, even during the toughest jugging I ever played in, I have NEVER seen the type of agressive intensity and escalation that you seem to think is running unchecked because Touch of Death is being used.

If you've experienced an ongoing problem with excessive body contact, then your problem is with your reeves and local elected officers.
The moment someone becomes a problem in this area, they should be removed from the game, PERIOD...!!!

As for wrist slapping and ass grabbing...
sounds more like a dating problem to me, but I'm sure it can be looked into.

Now for Faelynn... telling me to just get over it...
Ah, isn't he sweet... can't wait to meet him... after what I seen him post...
I'm betting a few Cats could send him back to Nirvana cryin' for his mommy... without ever touching him (weapon or otherwise).